No Pa!

[LoneLobo]

http://www.krqe.com/dpps/sports/penn-state-ousts-joepa-and-president_3985332

Joe Pa Fired!!!

[elmassuave]

I was very pleased that the President got fired too. Hopefully, more will be fired too.:arms:

[MacLobo]

Good!

[JTX]

Add another to the list of available coaches... :lol:

[MacLobo]

Add another to the list of available coaches... :lol:Too soon....

[elmassuave]

If Paterno wants to continue coaching, why not?

[LoneLobo]

I read that Bowden isn't interested in our job because he heard of an opening in unhappy valley...

[Rich7dc11]

i think he done with coaching. i know what he did was wrong. its just sad to see it come to an end like this for him.

[mikexom]

Screw Paterno!!! I think its sad little boys got raped by his Assistant Coach in his locker room and he did as little as possible about it. He is not a man of character and integrity.

[Roob]

:wave: buh bye

[SpanaBaller]

I find this to be a travesty. What is the basis for the firing?:W

Joe Paterno was not involved in the crime. As he wasn't one of the folks who got indicted over the weekend. He followed protocol by reporting the allegations to his supervisor. What else was an 84 yr old man with a full-plate coaching an 8-1 BCS team suppose to do? Beat up the sicko who was raping the kid?

His job was to coach the football team and he got caught in the middle.

IMHO.....the Graduate assistant who was an eyewitness to the abuse should have gone straight to the police. He is the one who may be obstructing justice give the eyewitness nature of being a witness.

[nmlongbow]

Joe Pa wasn't 84 then and even if he was, all he had to do was call the cops.

That old fool was more worried about his job and the football program than the welfare of those kids. There is no way that could he not have known what was going on.

[TheLoboMan]

I find this to be a travesty. What is the basis for the firing?:W

Joe Paterno was not involved in the crime. As he wasn't one of the folks who got indicted over the weekend. He followed protocol by reporting the allegations to his supervisor. What else was an 84 yr old man with a full-plate coaching an 8-1 BCS team suppose to do? Beat up the sicko who was raping the kid?

His job was to coach the football team and he got caught in the middle.

IMHO.....the Graduate assistant who was an eyewitness to the abuse should have gone straight to the police. He is the one who may be obstructing justice give the eyewitness nature of being a witness.

He got fired cause he knew about it and even told his AD about it years ago and still allowed Sandusky to be around the program. That's why he got fired. Sandusky was still in the locker room LAST WEEK! That's why Joe Pa Got fired. He didn't know anything besides football. His life was sheltered in Happy Valley. He didn't call the police so he got fired.

[Mark]

He had 10 years to "think" about it. He should have been fired. He got what he deserved. If that was your son who got raped in the shower, you'd feel much different. Joe Pa is no different than they person who saw it or did it. He let it continue and 8 or so other children might have not had their manhood taken from a pedo, sick bastard!!

[SpanaBaller]

Maybe I am being myopic. But here is a thought......So why hasn't Paterno been charged or indicted?

Common sense folks....geez.

I hope some of ya don't get chosen to a jury. You are basing everything on emotion alone and not including logic and principles of the law. It is obvious there is ignorance of the definition what a crime is and who is the criminal.

Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, 67, is facing charges for the horrific crimes
Penn State AD is facing perjury accusations for the cover-up.

Send me a memo when Paterno is in the slammer and answering to this witch hunt for something this isn't his fault. From what I saw in the legal documents....Paterno WAS NOT an eyewitness. He only was involved to the extent he heard from his GA about what the GA thought he saw. Hearsay statements are not as credible as EYEWITNESS testimony. IT WAS THE DUTY OF THE eyewitness to contact police.....not those that hear rumors or allegations. Paterno simply told his boss about the situation. Paterno isn't trained on police investigations or able to give much info other than what the GA would have known about what he saw

[dbkirkp]

I think they should have fired him yesterday. I don't understand the whole "but Joe Pa didn't rape a kid, and he told a higher up" reasoning. If you see someone getting stabbed, you call the cops, if you see someone drowning you throw a lifesaver. If you know about a child getting molested you turn the sick bastard in and save the kid! (I personally would call the cops and tell them to hurry because I would be loading a gun). I think what Joe Pa needs to do is to man up and make a lesson out of this. He needs to say that he deserved to be fired and that he is an example of all the good things that you can lose (The most illustrious coaching career in history) by not standing up for what is right. People need to know that not standing up for what is right will end up getting them in the end. Do we need to go into the elementary school Holocaust lesson and use the poem.

First they came for the communists,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

If we don't promote a culture of people speaking out and protecting other peoples kids, who is going to protect ours? We have to be proactive about it. Paterno didn't speak out because it wasn't him. Now that he doesn't have a job, I am not going to speak out for him because he didn't speak out for others.

PS. -I think Paterno is probably an amazing guy with great morals, but this is a flaw that can't be overlooked. Hopefully he has learned his lesson and it will never happen again. I just hope others learn it as well so we won't have to deal with this again because I get so upset/sick that I have to turn off the TV/radio.

[dbkirkp]

Maybe I am being myopic. But here is a thought......So why hasn't Paterno been charged or indicted?

Common sense folks....geez.

I hope some of ya don't get chosen to a jury. You are basing everything on emotion alone and not including logic and principles of the law. It is obvious there is ignorance of the definition what a crime is and who is the criminal.

Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, 67, is facing charges for the horrific crimes
Penn State AD is facing perjury accusations for the cover-up.

Send me a memo when Paterno is in the slammer and answering to this witch hunt for something this isn't his fault. From what I saw in the legal documents....Paterno WAS NOT an eyewitness. He only was involved to the extent he heard from his GA about what the GA thought he saw. Hearsay statements are not as credible as EYEWITNESS testimony. IT WAS THE DUTY OF THE eyewitness to contact police.....not those that hear rumors or allegations. Paterno simply told his boss about the situation. Paterno isn't trained on police investigations or able to give much info other than what the GA would have known about what he saw

Where does Paterno have the legal right to a job? I want my football coach to represent the University well. His actions here didn't do that. They have all the right to fire him. State College is Paterno's town, the fact that he let Sandusky stay around is due to Paterno's inaction. Joe didn't break any laws (that I am aware of) and shouldn't be punitively punished, but the privilege of the job was revoked and it had to be to help save the school's image.

I look at the firing as necessary not for the punishment of Joe Paterno, but the message it sends of, you need to stand up because this can't be more serious and society will not deal with this ****.

[elmassuave]

Paterno notified the athletic director, Tim Curley, and a vice president, Gary Schultz. Curley has taken a leave of absence and Schultz has decided to step down. Any idea why Curley wasn't fired?

http://mycenturylink.com/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9QTK6780%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1018&page=1 (http://mycenturylink.com/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9QTK6780%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1018&page=1)

[lovelobos]

Paterno notified the athletic director, Tim Curley, and a vice president, Gary Schultz. Curley has taken a leave of absence and Schultz has decided to step down. Any idea why Curley wasn't fired?

http://mycenturylink.com/news/read.php?rip_id=&ps=1018&page=1 (http://mycenturylink.com/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9QTK6780%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1018&page=1)

He will be soon.

And anyone who cannot understand why Paterno was fired needs to think about the danger his inaction posed to other vulnerable children. Paterno had a test of his ethical fiber, and he failed. Period.

[SpanaBaller]

Yep. Everyone is running smoothly now at PennSt. Check out this link. The firing was a great idea.:ugh1:


http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/11/09/penn-state-campus-erupts-in-wake-of-joe-paternos-firing (http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/11/09/penn-state-campus-erupts-in-wake-of-joe-paternos-firing/)

I think given the emotions there are valid arguments on both sides. I refuse to believe termination the coach or rioting are the solutions but whatever we all can agree there was no way this is good news or any way Penn St was gonna come out of this without getting a scapegoat.

The true scumbag is Jerry Sandusky and the true victims are the innocent kids. What a huge mess this all is.

[catherine]

Maybe I am being myopic. But here is a thought......So why hasn't Paterno been charged or indicted?

Common sense folks....geez.

I hope some of ya don't get chosen to a jury. You are basing everything on emotion alone and not including logic and principles of the law. It is obvious there is ignorance of the definition what a crime is and who is the criminal.

Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, 67, is facing charges for the horrific crimes
Penn State AD is facing perjury accusations for the cover-up.

Send me a memo when Paterno is in the slammer and answering to this witch hunt for something this isn't his fault. From what I saw in the legal documents....Paterno WAS NOT an eyewitness. He only was involved to the extent he heard from his GA about what the GA thought he saw. Hearsay statements are not as credible as EYEWITNESS testimony. IT WAS THE DUTY OF THE eyewitness to contact police.....not those that hear rumors or allegations. Paterno simply told his boss about the situation. Paterno isn't trained on police investigations or able to give much info other than what the GA would have known about what he saw

You are correct in that Joe Paterno has not been indicted or charged with any crime. However, that's not the point that most people on this thread are making. There's a difference between legal culpability and moral or ethical culpability. What he did was morally reprehensible. Yes, he told his boss. Then he just went on with his life and coaching football and having Sandusky around the campus and program. That's not ok. Morally, he should have ensured that the right actions were taken, that the incident and that poor child were not ignored and that Sandusky was not left in a position to harm other boys.

As much power as Joe Paterno had around Happy Valley, it was his moral obligation to ensure that the appropriate steps were taken. Even if he didn't have that power ... I don't know how he has slept for 10 years knowing that he did nothing to stop a pedophile. This sickens me ... I have a 10 year old boy. Even without that perspective, I'm blown away by the fact that anyone does not think that Paterno is morally culpable and should be held accountable for his inaction.

As I told Skyler today (what a crazy conversation to have with a kid ...) decisions have consequences. And it's rare that you can avoid consequences of bad or unethical, immoral decisions forever. Eventually you have to pay for poor choices.

[catherine]

I think given the emotions there are valid arguments on both sides. I refuse to believe termination the coach or rioting are the solutions but whatever we all can agree there was no way this is good news or any way Penn St was gonna come out of this without getting a scapegoat.

The true scumbag is Jerry Sandusky and the true victims are the innocent kids. What a huge mess this all is.

That's true, Joe Paterno is certainly not a scapegoat. He made a morally reprehensible decision, and now the consequences are coming round to him.

I agree that the major scumbag in the is Jerry Sandusky, but others have their own levels of scumminess. And innocent kids are the victims. But don't paint Paterno as some kind of victim. He made a very poor choice and what happened to him is a result of that ... if he's a victim, he victimized himself.

[mikexom]

Contrast Paterno/PSU Administration inactions to two recent incidents, one of which took place in ABQ -
a) A guy sees a kid being forced in a vehicle, he follows the car, intervenes and saves the kid from a pedophile - the guy was an illegal alien, got involved knowing he'd likely get deported as a result.

b) A couple of thieves broke into a house, stole electronic video equipment and boxes of DVD's, once away, they realized the DVD's contained child abuse scenes. These guys take the DVD's to the police effectively turning themselves in.

In general conversations, Happy Valley leaders would be seen as examples of character and integrity, way above illegal aliens and thieves, but while these "leaders" traded children's innocence for the illusion of their reputation, others acted even at cost to themselves. There is no excuse or justification for what these cowards did not do and they deserve much worse than they will ultimately get.

[UNM Class of 1972]

I find this to be a travesty. What is the basis for the firing?:W

Joe Paterno was not involved in the crime. As he wasn't one of the folks who got indicted over the weekend. He followed protocol by reporting the allegations to his supervisor. What else was an 84 yr old man with a full-plate coaching an 8-1 BCS team suppose to do? Beat up the sicko who was raping the kid?

His job was to coach the football team and he got caught in the middle.

IMHO.....the Graduate assistant who was an eyewitness to the abuse should have gone straight to the police. He is the one who may be obstructing justice give the eyewitness nature of being a witness.

Your post says a lot about your character. Just try to imagine yourself as a teenager taking a shower with an old man in a position of authority and no one cared or cared enough to raise Hell after the AD and President swept in under the rug. Why didn't Paterno report this also to child protective services or to law enforcement? Are you saying it wouldn't matter because abuse of a teenage boy is irrelevant in order to protect a football program and a legendary head coach's reputation? Think about this some more.

[GiJoeRay]

The trial(s) are gonna be very interesting. I have a feeling that a whole lot more "dirty laundry" is going to be aired.

[MacLobo]

Now there are reports that Sandusky and Second mile were possibly pimping out boys to wealthy donors!?!?!?!?!? Oh my.....

[mikexom]

The trial(s) are gonna be very interesting. I have a feeling that a whole lot more "dirty laundry" is going to be aired.

Definitely a lot more. I would not be surprised to learn that the assistant coach was abused by Sandusky. Also, given that Sandusky was taking kids to bowl games (per Grand Jury testimony), he crossed state lines so next up will be the Feds.

Maybe the wrong time to say this, but the issues here about unfettered power granted to an athletic department are in principle similar to what has been happening with the BCS (and some of that was seen in some of the recent slush fund scandals involving BCS bowls).

Anyway, I believe if Paterno is not punished with anything else, the University should ban him and all others from ever setting foot on a Penn State campus again, that would be a good statement.

[TheLoboMan]

I think Paterno will be indicted for something. I'm trying to find a report I read yesterday about Peterno and the way he handled it. It was interesting.

Spana, go have some kids then come back and post. If you had kids you would have wanted Paterno fired and prosecuted.

Paterno, was told about it. He never showed any concern for the kid. Paterno was also questioned a couple of years ago by the Grand Jury. He was then told that Sandusky had committed numerous crimes at the football facility. And yet still as of last week Sandusky was still allowed to be at the Penn State Football facilities as if nothing had happened. Paterno had to go.

Spana, just like you love to vilify Rocky Long for the sanctions this is the exact same thing except a million times worse. The NCAA and everyone involved said Rocky had nothing to do with our violations except that he was the head coach. Paterno had everything to do with this cause he actually knew about it and still allowed the SCUM BAG in and around the football program. Paterno is SCUM too.

[SpanaBaller]

Your post says a lot about your character. Just try to imagine yourself as a teenager taking a shower with an old man in a position of authority and no one cared or cared enough to raise Hell after the AD and President swept in under the rug. Why didn't Paterno report this also to child protective services or to law enforcement? Are you saying it wouldn't matter because abuse of a teenage boy is irrelevant in order to protect a football program and a legendary head coach's reputation? Think about this some more.

Here is thing....if I were an eyewitness.....damn straight I would call the police. I would even beat the sicko to a bloddy pulp. That isn't the point regarding Paterno. Paterno heard hearsay and was NEVER an eyewitness.

Imagine this scenario:

What if someone who WAS NOT an eyewitness went to the police after hearing rumors about a crime. They didn't see the crime but heard vague details w/o specifics from a graduate assistant(according to the grand jury indictment against Sardusky). What is Paterno suppose to report? What happens if Paterno reports but the GA lied to him about what he say. Now Paterno becomes an accessory to perjury. He becomes liable possibly for slander/libel unless he was an actual eyewtiness or has corroborating evidence. Or worse he could put away someone in jail without knowing the details. YES...if Paterno saw something...he should go straight to police. But reporting rumors sometimes can backfire. Especially if the criminal gets exonorated and trys to sue his way against folks who put him in this legal predicament. Obviously Sardusky is guilty...after all of the facts has been collected. But at the time Paterno knew......who knows. Sardusky was a trusted coach in Paterno staff. Paterno is gonna give him the benefit of the doubt over a graduate assistant UNLESS damning evidence was given to Paterno or Paterno saw the damn thing. Bottomline the eyewtiness was better off going to the POLICE who have investigative powers.

In hindsight....this is what should have happened. AFTER the graduate assistant reported the eyewitness account to Paterno. Paterno should have instructed the graduate assistant to go to the POLICE. Police should have interviewed the GA that day and put away Sarduskly for life. The GA carries the burden or evidence. I may be wrong but in a court of law.......Ask any lawyer out there.....hearsay testimony in court is usually not admissible. Hearsay could still be used as starting points for police investigation.....but the police needed the eyewitness testimony in order to put away the sicko. Paterno is just an ear piece who can't do anything other than fire and remove the criminal from the football staff list.

[Loco Lobo 05]

Maybe I am being myopic. But here is a thought......So why hasn't Paterno been charged or indicted?

Common sense folks....geez.

I hope some of ya don't get chosen to a jury. You are basing everything on emotion alone and not including logic and principles of the law. It is obvious there is ignorance of the definition what a crime is and who is the criminal.

Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, 67, is facing charges for the horrific crimes
Penn State AD is facing perjury accusations for the cover-up.

Send me a memo when Paterno is in the slammer and answering to this witch hunt for something this isn't his fault. From what I saw in the legal documents....Paterno WAS NOT an eyewitness. He only was involved to the extent he heard from his GA about what the GA thought he saw. Hearsay statements are not as credible as EYEWITNESS testimony. IT WAS THE DUTY OF THE eyewitness to contact police.....not those that hear rumors or allegations. Paterno simply told his boss about the situation. Paterno isn't trained on police investigations or able to give much info other than what the GA would have known about what he saw

He isn't being fired because he broke a law...He was representing PSU and anything that he does that damages the image of PSU in this way is just cause for termination. This should be obvious to most rational people looking at this incident objectively.

[Loco Lobo 05]

If Paterno wants to continue coaching, why not?

He will never coach again. Who wants an 84 year old with all this baggage? Nobody. When was the last time he was actually on the sidelines coaching? During the games he's up in the press box watching the game without a headset on. He’s like the guy in Weekend at Bernie’s and is more like a mascot.

[LIDOakaLJT]

Contrast Paterno/PSU Administration inactions to two recent incidents, one of which took place in ABQ -
a) A guy sees a kid being forced in a vehicle, he follows the car, intervenes and saves the kid from a pedophile - the guy was an illegal alien, got involved knowing he'd likely get deported as a result.

b) A couple of thieves broke into a house, stole electronic video equipment and boxes of DVD's, once away, they realized the DVD's contained child abuse scenes. These guys take the DVD's to the police effectively turning themselves in.

In general conversations, Happy Valley leaders would be seen as examples of character and integrity, way above illegal aliens and thieves, but while these "leaders" traded children's innocence for the illusion of their reputation, others acted even at cost to themselves. There is no excuse or justification for what these cowards did not do and they deserve much worse than they will ultimately get.


:arms: +1,000,000,000 :arms:

[LIDOakaLJT]

Spana, go have some kids then come back and post. If you had kids you would have wanted Paterno fired and prosecuted.


FYI - a person doesn't need to have kids to know how wrong JoePa was in his decision-making. Que lastima...

Yet another example of how fame and fortune makes one believe that they're above common decency/morals/the law!

[MacLobo]

FYI.....Pennsylvania State Law..... "§*42.42.*Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.*(a)**General rule. Under 23 Pa.C.S. §**6311 (relating to persons required to report suspected child abuse), licensees who, in the course of the employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made to the Department of Public Welfare when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse."

[lovelobos]

Here is thing....if I were an eyewitness.....damn straight I would call the police. I would even beat the sicko to a bloddy pulp. That isn't the point regarding Paterno. Paterno heard hearsay and was NEVER an eyewitness.

Imagine this scenario:

What if someone who WAS NOT an eyewitness went to the police after hearing rumors about a crime. They didn't see the crime but heard vague details w/o specifics from a graduate assistant(according to the grand jury indictment against Sardusky). What is Paterno suppose to report? What happens if Paterno reports but the GA lied to him about what he say. Now Paterno becomes an accessory to perjury. He becomes liable possibly for slander/libel unless he was an actual eyewtiness or has corroborating evidence. Or worse he could put away someone in jail without knowing the details. YES...if Paterno saw something...he should go straight to police. But reporting rumors sometimes can backfire. Especially if the criminal gets exonorated and trys to sue his way against folks who put him in this legal predicament. Obviously Sardusky is guilty...after all of the facts has been collected. But at the time Paterno knew......who knows. Sardusky was a trusted coach in Paterno staff. Paterno is gonna give him the benefit of the doubt over a graduate assistant UNLESS damning evidence was given to Paterno or Paterno saw the damn thing. Bottomline the eyewtiness was better off going to the POLICE who have investigative powers.

In hindsight....this is what should have happened. AFTER the graduate assistant reported the eyewitness account to Paterno. Paterno should have instructed the graduate assistant to go to the POLICE. Police should have interviewed the GA that day and put away Sarduskly for life. The GA carries the burden or evidence. I may be wrong but in a court of law.......Ask any lawyer out there.....hearsay testimony in court is usually not admissible. Hearsay could still be used as starting points for police investigation.....but the police needed the eyewitness testimony in order to put away the sicko. Paterno is just an ear piece who can't do anything other than fire and remove the criminal from the football staff list.

Wow...where to begin? I can't believe you cannot let go of your flawed defense of Paterno. Without even going into your misconceptions of the law, let me ask you (hypothetically, please) if your nephew came to you and said that the guard at the playground sexually assaulted him (hearsay by your account), would you worry about being an "accomplice to perjury" and just go to the principal and report it and hope the "chain of command" works? Or worry that there are no eye witnesses? I hope not.

[BYF]

I find this to be a travesty. What is the basis for the firing?:W

Joe Paterno was not involved in the crime. As he wasn't one of the folks who got indicted over the weekend. He followed protocol by reporting the allegations to his supervisor. What else was an 84 yr old man with a full-plate coaching an 8-1 BCS team suppose to do? Beat up the sicko who was raping the kid?

His job was to coach the football team and he got caught in the middle.

IMHO.....the Graduate assistant who was an eyewitness to the abuse should have gone straight to the police. He is the one who may be obstructing justice give the eyewitness nature of being a witness.

I almost broke my mouse groaning you.

I can't think of another situation in college sports where such egregious misconduct (among the adults) has occurred. Numerous individuals in positions of authority made a decision to overlook monstrous acts and ultimately sacrifice the innocence of children at the expense of their university's image. Not only should Joe Pa have been fired, I believe the program should receive the Death Penalty. However, since no student-athletes are involved I doubt the NCAA has any jurisdiction.

[Digital Lobo]

http://radioactiveliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/donald-trump-youre-fired.jpg

[Digital Lobo]

If Paterno wants to continue coaching, why not?

Ummmm... because no institution with a shred of decency should ever want to hire him.

1) He had a moral obligation to these children to immediately report the matter to the police.

2) The fact that he could continue to work with this slimeball tell me volumes about Paterno's priorities and his character or lack thereof.

3) Did you see him hamming it up with the PSU students that marched up to his house day before yesterday? He obviously did not really care about the kids who were abused by his top guy.

-- Sent from my iPad.

[SoCalLobo]

Kudos to the vast majority of posters on this thread who can so easily see through the fog and respond with such conviction.

[CanisLupis]

Spana, here is the bigger picture. It's coming out that Sandusky still was around the PSU campus after the 02 event, with KIDS. They knew be did something on 02 and officials told him not to bring kids around the program. What? Don't bring kids around here is what they were saying. Why would they say that if they didn't think something was up. Screw Paterno. He'll gets what's deserved.
Here is thing....if I were an eyewitness.....damn straight I would call the police. I would even beat the sicko to a bloddy pulp. That isn't the point regarding Paterno. Paterno heard hearsay and was NEVER an eyewitness.Imagine this scenario:What if someone who WAS NOT an eyewitness went to the police after hearing rumors about a crime. They didn't see the crime but heard vague details w/o specifics from a graduate assistant(according to the grand jury indictment against Sardusky). What is Paterno suppose to report? What happens if Paterno reports but the GA lied to him about what he say. Now Paterno becomes an accessory to perjury. He becomes liable possibly for slander/libel unless he was an actual eyewtiness or has corroborating evidence. Or worse he could put away someone in jail without knowing the details. YES...if Paterno saw something...he should go straight to police. But reporting rumors sometimes can backfire. Especially if the criminal gets exonorated and trys to sue his way against folks who put him in this legal predicament. Obviously Sardusky is guilty...after all of the facts has been collected. But at the time Paterno knew......who knows. Sardusky was a trusted coach in Paterno staff. Paterno is gonna give him the benefit of the doubt over a graduate assistant UNLESS damning evidence was given to Paterno or Paterno saw the damn thing. Bottomline the eyewtiness was better off going to the POLICE who have investigative powers.In hindsight....this is what should have happened. AFTER the graduate assistant reported the eyewitness account to Paterno. Paterno should have instructed the graduate assistant to go to the POLICE. Police should have interviewed the GA that day and put away Sarduskly for life. The GA carries the burden or evidence. I may be wrong but in a court of law.......Ask any lawyer out there.....hearsay testimony in court is usually not admissible. Hearsay could still be used as starting points for police investigation.....but the police needed the eyewitness testimony in order to put away the sicko. Paterno is just an ear piece who can't do anything other than fire and remove the criminal from the football staff list.

[Digital Lobo]

Joe Pa has admittedly acknowledged to be nuts about his grand kids which begs the question: What do you think that his actions would have been if Sandusky would have been caught in the act of doing those things to one of Joe's offspring? -- Sent from my iPad.

[greg9871]

I do not often post on here but I read what everyone is saying almost everyday. SpanaBaller, I have lost all respect for your opinions.

[colt6bt]

I don't doubt that Paterno reported the incident to University Officials, but the lack of action afterwards seems to indicate a cover up by both Paterno and the Brass at Penn St. If Paterno is able to overlook child molestation on his facilities to keep his program out of bad publicity, then what other things did he overlook, recruiting violations? By ignoring the situation and allowing Sandusky to continue using the facilites to lure in boys, Paterno sent the message to his staff that this behavior was okay. How else could Mike McQueary write a recruiting letter in which he boasts to recruits that Penn St. is a school was without scandal. The same Mike McQueary who testified to a grand jury in 02 that he saw Sandusky having sex with a boy in the showers. McQueary writes:"Penn State is 1 of 2 division1 institutions who have never been investigated or sanctioned for any major NCAA infractions, Think about this as you make your college decision." "Coach Paterno's saying 'Success with Honor' has value here. It is not something we take lightly." Are you kidding me?

Before anyone else trys to come to Paterno's defense save yourself some embarrasment and please read the Grand Jury report! The entire administration should be removed! http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf

[judas_priest]

I am not familiar with Pennsylvania's child abuse reporting laws (I may have been born in Philadelphia, but I'm not a "Philadelphia" lawyer). But I did have to take a course in this for Oregon when I was an active member of the bar here, and this is based on what I remember of that from 10 or so years ago. It is also based on what some legal talking head said on a news show. Paterno did not have first hand-knowledge, but the law requires reporting. But reporting to his superior (the AD) satisfied the reporting requirement sufficiently to avoid criminal sanctions. It is not enough, however, to satisfy the requirements of morality - at least in my book. There are a number of things he could have done. (for example, follow up with the AD - although that wouldn't have helped; discuss the matter with University counsel and/or the university president; go to the police) He did none of them. At a minimum, he should not have let Sandusky remain in a position of trust, and he should have made sure that Sandusky's "charity" did not have access to University property until such time as Sandusky was investigated and cleared. (Which obviously would not have happened).

Paterno apparently led an exemplary life and ran a great - and clean - program, but when he F'd up, he really did it in a giant way. Since he did no active evil I see no grounds to ban him from university facilities (but think of Edmund Burke's statement: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for men of good will to do nothing." - Sorry for the gender limitation, but this was, after all, said in the 18th century.)

I was thinking that they should perhaps have let him coach one more game - so he could say a proper good-bye to the people he coached - but I recognize why this was not done.

[colt6bt]

I am not familiar with Pennsylvania's child abuse reporting laws (I may have been born in Philadelphia, but I'm not a "Philadelphia" lawyer). But I did have to take a course in this for Oregon when I was an active member of the bar here, and this is based on what I remember of that from 10 or so years ago. It is also based on what some legal talking head said on a news show. Paterno did not have first hand-knowledge, but the law requires reporting. But reporting to his superior (the AD) satisfied the reporting requirement sufficiently to avoid criminal sanctions. It is not enough, however, to satisfy the requirements of morality - at least in my book. There are a number of things he could have done. (for example, follow up with the AD - although that wouldn't have helped; discuss the matter with University counsel and/or the university president; go to the police) He did none of them. At a minimum, he should not have let Sandusky remain in a position of trust, and he should have made sure that Sandusky's "charity" did not have access to University property until such time as Sandusky was investigated and cleared. (Which obviously would not have happened).

Paterno apparently led an exemplary life and ran a great - and clean - program, but when he F'd up, he really did it in a giant way. Since he did no active evil I see no grounds to ban him from university facilities (but think of Edmund Burke's statement: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for men of good will to do nothing." - Sorry for the gender limitation, but this was, after all, said in the 18th century.)

I was thinking that they should perhaps have let him coach one more game - so he could say a proper good-bye to the people he coached - but I recognize why this was not done.

Excellent point JP, I'm with you. He didn't do anything illegal. But he failed to demonstrate the morale courage that a truly great head coach would display. He placed the success of his football program over the safety of those boys, and that is unacceptable.

[LoboLaw]

As an active criminal defense attorney, I tend towards neutral on this kind of stuff. But I began to have a problem with Joepa when I learned that there had been an official investigation into Sandusky in 1998. Nobody is certain what, precisely, Mcqueary told Joe in 2002 - Mac says "anal rape in the shower" and Joepa says "vague sexual misconduct' - but what everyone agrees upon is that Mac told Joepa that Sandusky was having inappropriate shower-time with young boys. In 2002. CONNECT THE DOTS, JOE.

[judas_priest]

Here is thing....if I were an eyewitness.....damn straight I would call the police. I would even beat the sicko to a bloddy pulp. That isn't the point regarding Paterno. Paterno heard hearsay and was NEVER an eyewitness.

Imagine this scenario:

What if someone who WAS NOT an eyewitness went to the police after hearing rumors about a crime. They didn't see the crime but heard vague details w/o specifics from a graduate assistant(according to the grand jury indictment against Sardusky). What is Paterno suppose to report? What happens if Paterno reports but the GA lied to him about what he say. Now Paterno becomes an accessory to perjury. He becomes liable possibly for slander/libel unless he was an actual eyewtiness or has corroborating evidence. Or worse he could put away someone in jail without knowing the details. YES...if Paterno saw something...he should go straight to police. But reporting rumors sometimes can backfire. Especially if the criminal gets exonorated and trys to sue his way against folks who put him in this legal predicament. Obviously Sardusky is guilty...after all of the facts has been collected. But at the time Paterno knew......who knows. Sardusky was a trusted coach in Paterno staff. Paterno is gonna give him the benefit of the doubt over a graduate assistant UNLESS damning evidence was given to Paterno or Paterno saw the damn thing. Bottomline the eyewtiness was better off going to the POLICE who have investigative powers.

In hindsight....this is what should have happened. AFTER the graduate assistant reported the eyewitness account to Paterno. Paterno should have instructed the graduate assistant to go to the POLICE. Police should have interviewed the GA that day and put away Sarduskly for life. The GA carries the burden or evidence. I may be wrong but in a court of law.......Ask any lawyer out there.....hearsay testimony in court is usually not admissible. Hearsay could still be used as starting points for police investigation.....but the police needed the eyewitness testimony in order to put away the sicko. Paterno is just an ear piece who can't do anything other than fire and remove the criminal from the football staff list.

I would suggest that you acquire a bit more legal background before you speculate about the legal consequences of certain actions. Your comments about possible outcomes are absurd. Reporting possible criminal matters to the police is a privileged activity, and the person making such reports cannot be sued by the subject of the reports. If it is a knowingly false report, it could be the basis of a crime: to make a false report, but that's not what you are talking about. Even if that (privilege) were not so, simply reporting that you were told about a possible crime is not accusing the person directly. Whoat you are doing is alerting the police to a matter that bears investigation. Also, at the time of this hypothetical reporting there was no perjury - the GA's statement was not under oath. Thus there can be no "accessory to perjury." (Not sure that such a charge is possible. Never considered the issue.) Perjury is making a material false statement under oath. Side Note: The material part is why Bill Clinton did not commit perjury in the Paula Jones matter when he denied having sex with Lewinski - the situation with Monica Lewinsky had insufficient connection to the issue in the Paula Jones lawsuit and thus was not material.

Also, eye-witness testimony is not absolutely necessary. The kid's own testimony would have been legally sufficient. The eyewitness merely corroborates the story (not saying it would be very useful - as a prosecutor I would love having such testimony

[LoneLobo]

This article lays it out there. That jopa thought not to address it is pretty damn disgusting. Dave Bliss has some company at the bottom!:11:

I assume he'll soon be "no mo dough pa" once the lawsuits pan out...


http://news.yahoo.com/joe-paterno-arrogant-end-061800842.html

[mikexom]

Some wishful thinking on how this would workout if money/BCS did not rule the world....
Penn State should consider a number of things to demonstrate that it has principles vs words on a signboard:
a) Never ever allow Joe Paterno or anyone else associated with this mess within a mile of campus or have any dealings with the University or its associations (alumni, boosters, etc). Dealing with pedophiles and known enablers is a black and white matter, guarantee you if a player had seen but not reported or intervened in a raping of a grandson of Paterno's, that player would be forever persona non-grata in Mr. Happy Valley.

b) Shutdown the football program as a statement that the University is more important than a football team, if their motto is correct, then the University should not need an outside party to tell it to shutdown this program. The restart should be somehow tied to the rebuilding of the abused children's lives (when the last known abused kid say graduates from college).

c) Offer the abused individuals lifetime counseling and free educational support - may not be taken up but maybe a real step in helping rebuild lives.

d) Require Sandusky, Paterno, McQueary, Curley, Spanier sit and listen to each abuser tell them how their world is and how they felt when these pigs either abused or enabled their abuse.

Note the above assumes that what is known is all that this becomes, all bets are off if the rumors emerging of a pedophile sex ring servicing Penn State boosters/donors are found to be true, if that is the case then a case should be made for capital punishment of booth violators, benefactors, and the program (I mean dead forever dead).

[LoneLobo]

I wonder if Sandusky's seen this flick...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpKK34FZxJY&feature=related