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  1. #31
    TLL.com Womens Moderator Lobo2x53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoboLob0 View Post
    Considering there has been one 10 win season in my lifetime and only a large handful of 7-9 win campaigns, this might be one of the most delusional posts of the year, even playing in a watered down MWC.
    I am not saying we have done that, but still believe that is a realistic upper end goal. But not without changes.

  2. #32
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboray's Avatar
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    I agree. Other Universities have made steps and accomplished that and more. It wasn't that long ago, BSU was a junior college. CSU is now in position to get a bid from the Big 12 at any time. Nevada seems to be doing more with less in all their sports. Just a few examples of what has and can happen with great vision, leadership and management.
    Last edited by loboray; 05-14-2018 at 11:07 AM.


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  4. #33
    Pack Leader. loboball30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loboray View Post
    I agree. Other Universities have made steps and accomplished that and more. It wasn't that long ago, BSU was a junior college. CSU is now in position to get a bid from the Big 12 at any time. Nevada seems to be doing more with less in all their sports. Just a few examples of what has and can happen with great vision, leadership and management.
    I think CSU has basically a zero percent chance of getting that Big 12 invite (with its current membership). They just don't grow the pie enough ... Texas and OK will go to different conferences before they let other teams like CSU in. Unless, it's a team like USC or other similar school, it's not happening--they passed on Cinci, Uconn, Houston, etc.

    But I do agree with you that UNM does not do a good job marketing their sports. It's also not just about winning and losing for football you have to make the games the place to be on a Saturday. You make it an event, which does not really have to be about football. This starts with marketing, student outreach, etc.

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  6. #34
    Retired Admin Mark's Avatar
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    Lynch 2x53!
    ;)

    Hey, maybe Iím not the only one who thinks throwing good money after bad isnít he best strategy.
    #UNMerciful

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  8. #35
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Doublealum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Lynch 2x53!
    ;)

    Hey, maybe I’m not the only one who thinks throwing good money after bad isn’t he best strategy.
    agree so better sell the Pit & save more than all other suggestions - could probably fill Johnson

  9. #36
    TLL.com Womens Moderator Lobo2x53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Lynch 2x53!
    ;)

    Hey, maybe I’m not the only one who thinks throwing good money after bad isn’t he best strategy.
    Be careful--once the lynch mob forms they can acquire a broader taste for blood. ;)

  10. #37
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you FoKuZ's Avatar
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    Who seriously reads the journal?Lol

  11. #38
    Alpha Wolf alamolobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo2x53 View Post
    I don't think you read what I wrote.

    I did not say WBB was more important. I said there is a fundamentally different dynamic between the WBB fans and players. And the community as a whole views them differently, which is consistent with the poll. Importance, dollars, and emotional investment are three different things.

    And I stand by my belief that FB does not have the broad community support that many on here believe it has. Again, a statement of support, not importance.
    What sport attracts the highest number of fans to a game? The answer is football. That sure looks like broad community support to me.

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  13. #39
    Lobo Dog rcwireman's Avatar
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    Midmajor Programs

    Quote Originally Posted by apenland01 View Post
    I was surprised to see this and even more surprised with the current results.....

    https://www.abqjournal.com/1170836/o...ic-budget.html
    This poll is flawed like someone posted,you can't cut football or basketball.Also I was wondering if other programs are in financial stress like the Lobos?We need to get the football program supported right and get that revenue stream going,that's a lot of potential right there.

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  15. #40
    TLL.com Womens Moderator Lobo2x53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamolobo View Post
    What sport attracts the highest number of fans to a game? The answer is football. That sure looks like broad community support to me.
    Actually, no. It says that you have more people who go to the games. The poll was not limited to people who attend games.

    There are far more people who listen to, follow, talk about, and care about MBB across the state than do so for FB, at least among those I run into. Do not confuse people on here, or at games, with the "typical" NM person. I find people all over who --when the learn I am from ABQ--start talking Lobo BB. I can't remember any talking Lobo FB.

    As far as the WBB fans, I am not saying there are more hard core WBB fans than FB fans. I am saying more people in ABQ (and places like Gallup and Espanola) have a positive connection to the WBB players than to FB.

    You can certainly have your view about what sports you care most about, and which ones you don't, but 20K people in the stadium is not the measure of broad support.

  16. #41
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Lobodawg92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo2x53 View Post
    Actually, no. It says that you have more people who go to the games. The poll was not limited to people who attend games.

    There are far more people who listen to, follow, talk about, and care about MBB across the state than do so for FB, at least among those I run into. Do not confuse people on here, or at games, with the "typical" NM person. I find people all over who --when the learn I am from ABQ--start talking Lobo BB. I can't remember any talking Lobo FB.

    As far as the WBB fans, I am not saying there are more hard core WBB fans than FB fans. I am saying more people in ABQ (and places like Gallup and Espanola) have a positive connection to the WBB players than to FB.

    You can certainly have your view about what sports you care most about, and which ones you don't, but 20K people in the stadium is not the measure of broad support.
    Fwiw, I have more people in general talk to me about football than women's basketball with the general population. Men's hoops generates the most interest in my experience. I think if we could build some tradition in football it could take off. Things were starting for a while when Rocky was here, but then we fell into the abyss again.
    Go Lobos! Go Nunn! Go Sam! Go Joe!

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  18. #42
    TLL.com Womens Moderator Lobo2x53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobodawg92 View Post
    Fwiw, I have more people in general talk to me about football than women's basketball with the general population. Men's hoops generates the most interest in my experience. I think if we could build some tradition in football it could take off. Things were starting for a while when Rocky was here, but then we fell into the abyss again.
    I agree, mostly.

    As far as FB tradition, I just don't know how much "tradition" would be enough, nor how much of the state population will ever buy in. I look at when we were doing decently, and still did not see the large support base that some think will come. There is a lot more that needs to be done differently to make FB the money printing sport some here think it can be.

    As to the other part, maybe I am making this more complex than a sports board is appropriate for. Dawg, this is not addressed to you--we have talked enough about this that I think you understand my point though we disagree. I was already forming my post and getting ready to write this when I opened the board and saw your post.

    I never said there were more WBB fans than FB fans--NOT WHAT I SAID!!! What I did say is there are fewer WBB haters than FB haters, and likely fewer WBB-indifferent fans than FB-indifferent fans. It is like the polls about Howard Cosell when he was broadcasting boxing and MN football: He was both the most liked AND most disliked broadcaster at the same time. It depended upon how you asked the question. I think it is the same with FB and WBB--going back to the beginning of this thread.
    --If you ask "Which sport do you most want to keep?", more would say FB than WBB.
    --If you ask "Which sport do you most want to cut?", more did say FB than WBB.

    And both can easily be true.

    My whole point was that for FB to be what some think it can be, there has to be a shift in the general public's emotional tie to the FB team and players than exists today. It is that kind of emotional buy-in that allows a team to get through the down seasons without losing a huge amount of its support. The biggest evidence that the buy-in does NOT currently exist is the near instantaneous loss of FB interest with two bad games to start the 2017 season after a good 2016 season. Lobo FB fans are NOT bought in--they are as fair weather fans as most Dallas Cowboy fans east of the Mississippi. The Lobo BB fans, both men's and women's, are much more bought in, thus more willing to ride out down/rebuilding/whatever-you-call-it times. THAT is what the LOBO FB fan base has to become if the FB team will ever have a chance to become a sustaining money maker. So far, through all of this, I see people insisting "the community just needs to buy FB tickets", but I see NOTHING that convinces me that systemic changes are in place or being thought about to do what is necessary to change how the untapped fan base. sees lobo FB

    UNM may be able to become a "football school". It is possible, though the demographics of the state will always work against it and make it harder (and demographics win the vast majority of the time). But to make any such possibility a reality a lot needs to change at the university and at the state. Cutting other sports won't do it. Changing the coach won't do it. Throwing more money at it may be "necessary", but is far, far from sufficient--and until I see/hear other changes being made I DO think throwing more money at FB is throwing it away on stop-gap measures. Let me see real cultural changes to win the emotional support of the wider fan base and I would not have issues with spending more on FB.

    OK, I suspect I will still have a lot of people disagree with me on this topic, but hopefully they will disagree with what I SAID, not what I didn't say.

  19. #43
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboray's Avatar
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    Maybe we need to remind ourselves that we have a budget/money problem. Mixed in is a title IX federal law that needs to be addressed with any changes made. I hope no one believes that it is even possible for us to get fully compliant with the law. If you do, I want the franchise on whatever you're smoking. So back to money. Football, and men's and women's basketball are the revenue producers. women's bb almost broke even once, and I doubt it is currently anywhere near that. So, men's basketball is still the goose that lays the golden eggs. Football is the next largest revenue provider. Football has the potential to bring in a lot more money if it is properly promoted. Hopefully there isn't much additional dirt the local media can throw out there to run the program down. So, no news flash here. FB, MBB, and WBB are untouchable. Because of title IX and the way it was addressed by the media recently, women's programs are pretty much untouchable. The exception could be the women's ski team. Would make no sense to kill the men's and keep the women's ski team. All other men's sports teams are under scrutiny and if they decide to go 4 deep, some really good programs will be cut. Might as well get it done and out there the sooner the better so we can all move on.


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  21. #44
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    lobos support how many sports? Golobos.com shows 20, not 22...lobos count skiing as two and track/cross-country as four...Alabama counts track/cross-country as one...


    Trinidad and Tobago 2...USA 1


    US Men's National Team
    Alexi Lalas, "Are you going to continue to be a bunch of soft, underperforming, tattooed millionaires? You are a soccer generation that has been given everything; you are a soccer generation who's on the verge of squandering everything."




  22. #45
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    Alabama has 61 women on their track/cross-country roster...


    Trinidad and Tobago 2...USA 1


    US Men's National Team
    Alexi Lalas, "Are you going to continue to be a bunch of soft, underperforming, tattooed millionaires? You are a soccer generation that has been given everything; you are a soccer generation who's on the verge of squandering everything."




  23. #46
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    San Diego State has 40 women on their Lacrosse roster...


    Trinidad and Tobago 2...USA 1


    US Men's National Team
    Alexi Lalas, "Are you going to continue to be a bunch of soft, underperforming, tattooed millionaires? You are a soccer generation that has been given everything; you are a soccer generation who's on the verge of squandering everything."




  24. #47
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    I propose we add lacrosse, expand women's track/cross-country, suck it up and fund them and the rest of the athletic department, AND publish a list of colleges nationwide who are Title IX COMPLIANT...and a list of those who are not...
    Last edited by zoom; 1 Week Ago at 07:42 AM.


    Trinidad and Tobago 2...USA 1


    US Men's National Team
    Alexi Lalas, "Are you going to continue to be a bunch of soft, underperforming, tattooed millionaires? You are a soccer generation that has been given everything; you are a soccer generation who's on the verge of squandering everything."




  25. #48
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboray's Avatar
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    Alabama can afford to throw big bucks at the problem. SDSU?? Might explain their budget problems. We don't have the money to give out more scholarships.


  26. #49
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    We don't have the money to give out more scholarships.
    this state has the money...do they have the foresight...besides, I think this is all about accounting and the way they handle scholarships...


    Trinidad and Tobago 2...USA 1


    US Men's National Team
    Alexi Lalas, "Are you going to continue to be a bunch of soft, underperforming, tattooed millionaires? You are a soccer generation that has been given everything; you are a soccer generation who's on the verge of squandering everything."




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  28. #50
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Lobodawg92's Avatar
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    I don't know what the basketball program was like back before Bob King. Fur sure, it is the interest in the general public now.

    Women's basketball was nothing before Don Flanagan. He built something. It has declined, starting in his latter years, but it is still something very nice, and the administration takes notice (at least to some extent) and works to keep that interest. Even as popular as it is, most of the general public I speak to is indifferent to women's basketball. Kinda disappointing really.

    The magic hasn't yet happened in football. There are some that keep arguing against it, but I keep hoping. The same arguements against football differ little to women's basketball before Flanagan, and likely men's basketball before King. Maybe it will be Bob Davie, maybe it won't, but I keep hoping. The bottom line, is that IF we could get football to take off here, it would be the best thing that could happen for all of the programs, as it has the potential to generate income well beyond expenses. Right now, the only program that does that to my knowledge is men's basketball. As far as the general public, most that I talk to in generalizations consider UNM a non-contender and therefore not interested.
    Go Lobos! Go Nunn! Go Sam! Go Joe!

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  30. #51
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loborick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loboray View Post
    Maybe we need to remind ourselves that we have a budget/money problem. Mixed in is a title IX federal law that needs to be addressed with any changes made. I hope no one believes that it is even possible for us to get fully compliant with the law. If you do, I want the franchise on whatever you're smoking. So back to money. Football, and men's and women's basketball are the revenue producers. women's bb almost broke even once, and I doubt it is currently anywhere near that. So, men's basketball is still the goose that lays the golden eggs. Football is the next largest revenue provider. Football has the potential to bring in a lot more money if it is properly promoted. Hopefully there isn't much additional dirt the local media can throw out there to run the program down. So, no news flash here. FB, MBB, and WBB are untouchable. Because of title IX and the way it was addressed by the media recently, women's programs are pretty much untouchable. The exception could be the women's ski team. Would make no sense to kill the men's and keep the women's ski team. All other men's sports teams are under scrutiny and if they decide to go 4 deep, some really good programs will be cut. Might as well get it done and out there the sooner the better so we can all move on.
    If I'm not mistaken, women's bb ended up in the black this past season. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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  32. #52
    TLL.com Womens Moderator Lobo2x53's Avatar
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    I heard they were the only sport that exceeded income expectations. Did not here whether they turned a profit or not.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Lobodawg92's Avatar
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    I don't know that women's hoops has ever made a profit. If so, I think it was small. Breaking even is a plus for the athletic department.
    Go Lobos! Go Nunn! Go Sam! Go Joe!

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  36. #54
    Alpha Wolf Red Crush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goAK1 View Post
    It's far from obvious what it is? Really??

    Let's see, a far below .500 overall record this many years into his regime. His "we're only NM so let's run a gimmicky offense where we don't throw the ball" mentality.
    Can't blame coach for doing what it takes to win at New Mexico. While coaching at UNM Bob Davie and Rocky Long are miracle workers given the resources they have to work with and what they achieved. A lot of fans in Albuquerque and around the state have lofty unrealistic expectations when it comes to football. A program with no winning tradition, few recruiting prospects in sparsely populated New Mexico, and we live in an impoverished state with only a few big fish who can contribute a significant amount of alumni donations.
    "I was trying to be aggressive," Snell said. "I heard the crowd so I just shot the ball."


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  38. #55
    Alpha Lobo AbqLobo's Avatar
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    I don't blame Coach Long or Coach Davie for providing some spark into out football existence. I would just love to have a run of 8-10 years of consistently above average seasons (.500+) - that will be the only way fringe fans will begin to believe in the program.

    I was hoping to see a countdown timer on GoLobos.com front page but instead they are pushing UNM Basketball season tickets. It would be nice if the football home page at least had a time countdown to when practice starts and to the first game.

    And one wonders why the average fans does not think highly of UNM football.
    Don't let who you are, keep you from becoming you who want to be!

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  40. #56
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboray's Avatar
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    We let go of one of our most successful FB coaches in order to hire a coach that would bring a spread offense so we could recruit the QB's to run a flashy successful program. Do I need to remind people how that turned out?? Three, yes three, 1 win seasons and a lot of bad publicity with consistent top 5 ratings on the worst program list. And the top in state QB's still left for Oklahoma, Michigan, Texas, etc. Coach Long and coach Davie used systems that work with the players we can and do recruit. Seems to be working OK at SDSU. Let's get behind the coach we have, cause I don't see another option out there right now. Especially right now with all the turmoil going on in the athletic department.


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    Leadership should come from the top. Until the New Pres. and AD get past the finger pointing (subtly) and dedicate to rebuilding the Athletic department that they deem is worth saving, things aren't going to turn around and improve. The sooner they decide which sports they will allow to continue and which they will eliminate, the better. Nice article on the Aggies current success in the Journal this morning. My hats off to them, they had a great year. Lets hope the UNM athletic department can put the negative stuff behind it and move forward with their own great results again.


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