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  1. #31
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you TheLoboMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    Tx: So much has changed since Neal got his $200k bump in 2014.

    New AD - in large part because of Krebs perceived poor management of funds.
    Numerous investigations and every state official now watching every dollar UNM athletics spends.
    Officials now demanding athletics repay UNM $4.5 million in funds obtained to rectify years of deficits.
    Attendance in football and basketball down, down, and down. Likely, football will even be worse this year.
    Lesson learned from bumping Neal after one year. Lost to Stanford, yes. But, still no one wanted him to bolt.
    Cost of attendance stipends beginning in 2015. UNM was to pay $2,700/per. Honestly, I’m not sure if we are.
    Neal buy-out.
    Pressure to defund certain athletic teams.
    Birmingham contract expiring in June/July 2018 - still to be negotiated.
    Nunez is getting it from all sides. Many pressures to balance the budget, controlling all costs.

    So - we all want to take care of Weir, expecting future years of success. Realistically - even if we do - no way, if he has the success we expect - we will come close to matching any P5 offer he will get.
    There you go posting facts!!! This post made me forget this is a fan board where assumptions and opinions run wild and facts are not to be stated here. LOL!!!

  2. #32
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    A lot of people are clamoring to bump up Weir's contract right away, but if you think about it for a bit you will realize that it really doesn't make our position any more secure. All it would likely do is ensure that we had to pay a higher salary to compete with someone else's offer. It isn't like 800k is going to scare another school off. It just means they have to up their initial bid, which would in turn cause us to up the amount we'd counter.

    If the Lobos are good next season and make the dance, then at that point UNM should put together a very nice extension and pay bump for Weir. That will show that UNM is loyal to Weir and is rewarding him for success on the hardwoods. At this point I don't think he even feels he deserves a reward, though he likely does believe the team is on schedule to develop into a MW power.

    That being said I think that if there aren't incentives to win the conference and make the NCAA tourney in his contract, then those should be added right away.

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  4. #33
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Loboman:

    I too wish to get caught up in the "excitement runs wild" and open the check book. I love spending other people's money. However - being a CPA who previously ran a distribution business for 20 plus years, with numerous employees, just brings out the worst in me. And, no way did I have the entire state looking over my books!!!

    No one wishes to lose Weir at this time - but, we must also realize no one wanted to lose Neal after his first year either. Perhaps Weir will be drastically more successful - it sure appears he has all the makings to be. And, if he is, I simply do not know how, under the financial environment we finds ourselves today, we will be able to compete with money conferences that will most likely be offering 2 to 3 times the salary we will be able to offer.

    People want UNM basketball to be the next Gonzaga, Wichita State - I do as well. But, neither of those schools field a football team. If we were drawing 35,000 plus football fans - that would be so helpful - but, we are not, and most likely will not in the foreseeable future. Additionally, State economy differentials - we could discuss for hours.

    I am as excited about Weir and future Lobo Basketball as the next guy - but, because of those dreadful, hated, facts, I am just trying to keep it real. Sorry . . . .
    “A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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  6. #34
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you txlobo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    No one wishes to lose Weir..Perhaps Weir will be drastically more successful...if he is, I simply do not know how, under the financial environment we finds ourselves today, we will be able to compete with money conferences that will most likely be offering 2 to 3 times the salary we will be able to offer.

    People want UNM basketball to be the next Gonzaga, Wichita State - I do as well. But, neither of those schools field a football team.

    I am as excited about Weir and future Lobo Basketball as the next guy - but, because of those dreadful, hated, facts, I am just trying to keep it real. Sorry . . . .
    Wow, we might as well fold up our tents and shut down the program now. Hell, we can't afford jack squat so why bother?

    Seriously, next year will be telling. If fans come back, and by my calculations, we add 2,200 fans per game, that will give us over 1mm more per year. With an additional 1 mm per year, is there any reason we can't double his salary if that is the market demand and what it takes to keep him here and happy? You don't want to mess with happy do you?

    We were paying Alford more than that, so you can't tell me we can manage that level of salary for the right coach that is the perfect fit for UNM? Why do you think Weir made the move? So he could be hire by Wash St. or Ole Miss or to turn Lobo BB into a national powerhouse?

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  8. #35
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you rick7g's Avatar
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    Really, Alford was offered 1.8 million. I doubt we could go that high but 1.2-1.4 would be serious money. I think that amount would be preferable to a lower level P5 program that offered 2 million. Now if he gets a higher level offer higher than that we may be in trouble.

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  10. #36
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    Hopefully Neal will get off his ass and get a job so the school will have more money to throw at Weir next season.

    Are there any rumors about Alford adding him to the staff? Couldn't Huss put in a good word for him at Creighton? Seriously, he was rumored to be one of the top assistant coaches in the nation when he was under Alford. It seems like he should be able to get an assistant gig somewhere. Of course, it sure is easy to just sit back and collect one million per year.

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  12. #37
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    Wow, we might as well fold up our tents and shut down the program now. Hell, we can't afford jack squat so why bother?

    Seriously, next year will be telling. If fans come back, and by my calculations, we add 2,200 fans per game, that will give us over 1mm more per year. With an additional 1 mm per year, is there any reason we can't double his salary if that is the market demand and what it takes to keep him here and happy? You don't want to mess with happy do you?

    We were paying Alford more than that, so you can't tell me we can manage that level of salary for the right coach that is the perfect fit for UNM? Why do you think Weir made the move? So he could be hire by Wash St. or Ole Miss or to turn Lobo BB into a national powerhouse?
    Tx: Getting mad at me, and receiving thanks from others for your efforts, will not change anything. If you are going to edit my posts - then, do so carefully. Discarding the reality that state officials, etc. are now watching everything UNM athletics does - is relevant. Discarding the fact UNM football is so in need of much more fan support - is relevant. Discarding that New Mexico does not have the economy that other states enjoy today - is relevant.

    I have stepped up many times donating funds to this University and various programs - basketball included. Today - as a donor - I worry that I, like others, will be exposed for any little benefit received. Hell - Krebs was killed by officials for a $1,000 dinner bill to entertain Steve Chavez. Seems we got far more back from Wise-Pies in return!! Steve was pissed - and, he is not alone. Like I said - the eyes of government are now watching us all. Let's not pretend that this environment is any where close to the Alford days. That is not reality my friend.

    2,200 more fans a game would be very helpful - will it happen? I know I am renewing my season tickets - it's a start. But, we also have unused, unpaid for suites. Will NM economy get those leased out? Will all funds be collected this time if they are?

    For many years men's basketball has funded an entire athletic department. I suppose increases in basketball revenue will need to fund far more than just an increase in salary to Paul Weir. As we sit here today - we have not gotten that increase of 2,200/per game increase you are seeking either. You, yourself, said "if". If simply does not pay the bills. Thus, Nunez and others must wait and do some long and short term contingency planning.

    Why don't you spend some time, rather than taking shots at me - a person wanting everything for this program as you do - just answering some of my earlier concerns above. Editing, or ignoring them, also solves nothing.

    What about stipends for basketball and football players? Are we paying any? If so, are they going to increase as other more solvent athletic programs increase theirs?
    What about the $4.5 million owed back to UNM? I think a re-payment plan has been addressed - if so, it cannot be ignored.
    What about the decline in football attendance? It will continue to counteract certain increases in basketball.
    Will certain non-revenue sports be defunded entirely? If so - let's remember Title IX and the heat taken when the ski program was X'd.
    What about baseball? Birmingham, among our most successful coaches the past decade, still hasn't received a new contract.

    Weir has a track record of one year at this point. As VWolf just posted - minor increases will not make UNM's position with Weir any more secure.

    I will leave you with this, based on information I have received - Why not make Davie share the football weight room with other athletic programs. It was happening until Davie didn't want it to. I understand UNM now pays $100,000/year to furnish a tent in order to have a place in which other programs can do their weight training. To me - under a very tight budget - and wishing to bump a few coaches salaries - it seems a shame to not share the football weight room, thereby tossing away $100,000/year. That is one tent I wouldn't mind folding up!! I'm just a stupid accountant - but, I believe I would start there.
    Last edited by RedSox87122; 03-12-2018 at 09:23 PM.
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  14. #38
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you rick7g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWolf View Post
    Hopefully Neal will get off his ass and get a job so the school will have more money to throw at Weir next season.

    Are there any rumors about Alford adding him to the staff? Couldn't Huss put in a good word for him at Creighton? Seriously, he was rumored to be one of the top assistant coaches in the nation when he was under Alford. It seems like he should be able to get an assistant gig somewhere. Of course, it sure is easy to just sit back and collect one million per year.

    I think its 450k

  15. #39
    Pack Leader. nmlongbow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWolf View Post
    Hopefully Neal will get off his ass and get a job so the school will have more money to throw at Weir next season.

    Are there any rumors about Alford adding him to the staff? Couldn't Huss put in a good word for him at Creighton? Seriously, he was rumored to be one of the top assistant coaches in the nation when he was under Alford. It seems like he should be able to get an assistant gig somewhere. Of course, it sure is easy to just sit back and collect one million per year.
    Neals’s buyout was 1 mil total, 500k per year for 2 years not 1 mil per year.

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  17. #40
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmlongbow View Post
    Neals’s buyout was 1 mil total, 500k per year for 2 years not 1 mil per year.
    OK, thanks for the correction. He must be barely scraping by on that. ;-)

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  19. #41
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you txlobo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    Tx: Getting mad at me, and receiving thanks from others for your efforts, will not change anything...we also have unused, unpaid for suites. Will NM economy get those leased out? Will all funds be collected this time if they are?

    Will certain non-revenue sports be defunded entirely? If so - let's remember Title IX and the heat taken when the ski program was X'd.

    Why not make Davie share the football weight room with other athletic programs. It was happening until Davie didn't want it to. I understand UNM now pays $100,000/year to furnish a tent in order to have a place in which other programs can do their weight training.
    Lol, I'm not mad, just asking if we want to be a nationally relevant basketball program or do we want to be a mere stepping stone to better opportunities like NMSU? I'm only editing down your post, as they are lengthy and I want to cut to the chase on specific issues.

    Haven't heard that about the Davie thing and my question, how in the hell does it cost $100,000 per year to provide a freakin' tent? Also, now that Nunez is on the job, can't he get that corrected immediately. I agree, he should be sharing that with other programs. No reason, they can't set-up times that it's available for each program and stick to the schedule. How much was the charter flight for the women to return from the Fresno St. game? those are not cheap.

    I'm sure there are a lot of "expenses" that can be drastically reduced or cut altogether. How about not paying 600k a year for skiing? I know UNM caught a lot of heat, but honestly, that may not be something we can afford. Maybe, that team needs to get sponsorships and raise the money that way? Beach volleyball? Do we really need that?

    As someone else had mentioned, MBB is our primary sport. Then Football and WBB. If we are spending 100k because we can't share a weight room and that causes us to lose our MBB HC, then we have much bigger issues internally.

    I do think regardless of what else is going on, the market rate for a good quality MBB coach is 1.1 - 1.9 mm. The only question is, are we going to be a legit program or not? This is not talking about ridiculous P5 money either, which is over 3mm per season. The top 25 paid coaches are all making over 2.5mm and we have always stated we want to be a Top 25 program, right?

    http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/sala...ketball/coach/

    Gregg Marshall is by far the highest paid "non" P5 coach at 3.3mm. Mark Few is #50 at 1.934mm. Mike Rhoades of VCU checks in at #64 1.2mm.

    I'm saying we need to be somewhere at least in the ballpark of the VCU salary of 1.2mm, especially, if we want to keep Weir long term. At that salary, Weir could set-up his family, his children and his children's families for life.

    this list is obviously, not complete as it doesn't even list Weir's salary, nor many others, like Jaime Dixon of TCU, who makes 3.2mm.

    If this list was complete, there could be 100 coaches make at least 1.5mm. This list shows at least 58.

    Clearly, us getting by only paying 625k is a special situation, but we can't kid ourselves thinking this is the norm or the market. Neal was making 1mm and that was much closer to market rate, although, his coaching was much lower than market rate.

    Now we have a coach above market rate results and lower than market rate salary. That has to get in balance.

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  21. #42
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    I'm only editing down your post, as they are lengthy and I want to cut to the chase on specific issues.

    I do think regardless of what else is going on, the market rate for a good quality MBB coach is 1.1 - 1.9 mm. The only question is, are we going to be a legit program or not?

    Gregg Marshall is by far the highest paid "non" P5 coach at 3.3mm. Mark Few is #50 at 1.934mm. Mike Rhoades of VCU checks in at #64 1.2mm.

    I'm saying we need to be somewhere at least in the ballpark of the VCU salary of 1.2mm, especially, if we want to keep Weir long term. At that salary, Weir could set-up his family, his children and his children's families for life.

    Clearly, us getting by only paying 625k is a special situation, but we can't kid ourselves thinking this is the norm or the market. Neal was making 1mm and that was much closer to market rate, although, his coaching was much lower than market rate.

    Now we have a coach above market rate results and lower than market rate salary. That has to get in balance.
    I will agree that it appears we have an above market rate results coach (not 9th - but 3rd). However, again - we are basing that on a single year of results; one in which we did not qualify for post season play. Not a knock - just a fact. No post season - no added budget revenues. Next year, as you mentioned before, will be very telling.

    If UNM fans wish to retain this coach - then, I hope they realize the commitment that is needed to do so. Staying at home, not attending football, basketball, baseball or other team games, while expecting others will pick up the tab ain’t going to get it done!! We have an ever increasing base of fans that seem content to watch from home, and a student body that continually fills fewer seats, while demanding their athletic fees be cut or eliminated.

    We must face the reality that many top programs have far more donors, giving far larger sums. Instead, we counter with media personnel that want to expose and call out the few big donors we have - because after giving many tens of thousands to athletics, they were treated to certain benefits. You say - it takes money - to make money. Never once have I read that in any article that printed names of these donors.

    Tx - you and I can sit and type away, but as we do - sadly a large portion of the excitement expressed on the Lair does not appear to filter through the streets of this community - at least not in terms of ticket revenue.

    A short year ago, after waiting for several years, our football program was playing a home game for a share of the mountain crown. We didn’t even draw 20,000 fans. Now - we are returning from a 3-9 season, a coach that was suspended - I quiver at the thought.

    We can talk about funds for the ski team - but, if football receives minimum fan support - Nunez will find it increasingly difficult to pretty up any athletics at UNM. I fear, men’s basketball will also suffer from those side affects.
    Last edited by RedSox87122; 03-12-2018 at 11:24 PM.
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  23. #43
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you timvracer's Avatar
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    Well... the thing Tx and Red sure have pointed out is that MONEY is what makes a school competitive. I know this from my dealings with SJSU... money is everything. They can't afford a coach, facilities, or even travel for recruiting (seriously, coach can't afford to send assistants out recruiting, he has to do it all within a limited travel budget). No way SJSU can get over any sort of hump that way.

    From their perspective, UNM is wealthy/filthy rich.. but it's all relative. Compared to the P5's, we are in poverty. It just always comes down to money.

    Tx wants to find it by cutting other stuff, Red wants to find it with better fan and donor support... at least that is what I think I am reading, and I believe both are needed. But will either happen to enough of a degree? doubtful.
    -- timvracer --
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  25. #44
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Tim:

    To be clear regarding my position:

    1. Many recent actions against donors are going to make it extremely difficult to expect them to continue ponying up funds in the amounts needed.
    2. New Mexico economy refuses to compete against other states that our athletic programs do compete against. It’s nothing new - but, the gaps appear to be widening. And, at a time when supposedly the country has significantly rebounded.
    3. There are many areas within athletics requiring additional funding. $650,000 alone to redo football lockers, etc.
    4. Attendance numbers are down. Economy, investigations, win/loss records, social media - regardless the reason, the trend is not debatable. Likewise, such drops force other unwanted actions.
    5. Thus, I agree with you and Tx - cuts will have to be made and other costs controlled. Where - becomes the political debate with each program fighting for their dollars. Men’s basketball and its coach’s salaries are just part of that debate. I can vote a raise for Weir, but my vote means squat.

    Oh well - at the very least, apparently we can bank on staying ahead of San Jose St.
    “A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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  27. #45
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you RIDIC's Avatar
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    If they were to cut, say, beach volleyball, would it come with the same sort of outrage that cutting the ski team did? I doubt it, but you never really know.
    FEAR NOTHING!!!!!!!

  28. #46
    All Lobo Lair NightWolf's Avatar
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    Coach hangtime Reggie Theus fired at VS Northridge. Replaced by Gottfried.
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...outputType=amp

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  30. #47
    All Lobo Lair NightWolf's Avatar
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    Coach hangtime Reggie Theus fired at CS Northridge. Replaced by Gottfried.
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...outputType=amp

  31. #48
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightWolf View Post
    Coach hangtime Reggie Theus fired at CS Northridge. Replaced by Gottfried.
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...outputType=amp
    Potential Jans replacement for NMSU when he moves on to greener pastures?

  32. #49
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Hoser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNMerciful_1 View Post
    So far there are openings at UConn, Georgia, and Fresno St. Undoubtedly there will be a few more. As for MWC coaches, I would rank them in the following order in terms of the likelihood of the, being poached:

    1.Musselman
    2.Rice
    3.Dutcher
    4.Weir

    I believe Weir is safe unless there are a massive amount of firings. Dutcher is probably safe as well unless SDSU makes the sweet 16. I would be surprised if Muss and Rice were both back next season. With MWC expansion on the table now might be the time to bolt for a higher paying job before the conference gets harder to win.
    I have a hard time thinking that a step up for more money and prestige is in the workds for Rice. If another mid major makes a better $$ offer then maybe he takes it but I do not see a P5 school taking a chance on him.
    “It’s a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what.”

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  33. #50
    Wise Wolf zygote's Avatar
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    My. Gottfried is now playing in the minors. Wasn’t it just a year ago on this board when some doubted we had the $$ to lure him here?

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  35. #51
    Lobo Dog LouieVuitton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote View Post
    My. Gottfried is now playing in the minors. Wasn’t it just a year ago on this board when some doubted we had the $$ to lure him here?
    A contingent of Lobo fans were literally drooling at the prospect of him coming here. Fortunately, Krebs made the better choice.

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  37. #52
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you txlobo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timvracer View Post
    Well... the thing Tx and Red sure have pointed out is that MONEY is what makes a school competitive.

    Tx wants to find it by cutting other stuff, Red wants to find it with better fan and donor support... at least that is what I think I am reading, and I believe both are needed. But will either happen to enough of a degree? doubtful.
    Yes, money being spent in the "right" areas when funds are limited is key. What programs will give you the most bang for your buck? Certainly, Gonzaga decided MBB was going to be their cash cow and sure enough, it is driving their train. UNM has never had sustained a high level success in football. We have in Soccer, cross country, golf, etc, but those don't generate any revenue to add to the pot. So what does that leave? Men and women's basketball. Skiing and beach volleyball are simply costs that may not need to be incurred, especially, if we can truly balance our budget and make those tough decisions.

    I do think WBB is on the upswing from last years low point in attendance. They have increased their attendance by over 400 per game. The men's attendance was down this year, but IMO, it the "trough" of what it will be. The trend was definitely up toward the end of the season and I fully expect that to continue next year as we will have a loaded roster. Neal left the program at probably a lower point than McKay IMO. He allowed interest to wane to a point of people getting frustrated and not caring. Now that Weir is rebuilding fan interest and connection with them, attendance and fan interest overall should increase.

    Weir is dynamic and a future star coach, but even Weir can't turn the huge ship around in a single season. However, I do think next year, just like we saw on the women's side this year, we should be able to increase attendance next year by over 10% from this year. Hoping for over 12k avg and would be thrilled if that got over 13k-14k and hopefully, we can have a few sell-outs as well.

    I do have concerns similar to Soxx. If the media continues to demonize large donors for accepting small "token" gifts or benefits in return for their large donations, it could continue to diminish our large donor donations. I guess that will be Nunez's main job to re-establish trust and relationships with those large donors and get them back in the fold.

    IMO, they also need to reprice the suites so they can get all 40 suites fully leased out and paid for. If that means a 15%-30% cut, then so be it. It needs to be done. It will increase attendance and increase overall revenue. It also builds demand, so if Weir builds this program like we think he can, they can then raise slowly raise suite prices and still keep them 100% leased. They also need to lower the "luxury" suites as well. I was at the first game against ASU and sat upstairs and paid $200+ and would have much rather sat closer to the court. Those are priced too high and need to be at $50 per seat max. That will increase demand there as well.

    I do think the loaded team we will have next year will take care of increasing the lower bowl general admission tickets as long as we can have really good OOC results and continue that going into conf play. I also believe in Weir though to continue building ties to the community with the team and growing the fan-base each day. He really reminds me of Flanagan, the way Flanagan and players would go in the stands and thank the fans after games and other things they would do to reach out to fans. Very refreshing after our last coach.

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    Lobo Lair King lbc7's Avatar
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    Tubby Smith is out from Memphis. From espn.com

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    ESPN has said Penny Hardaway is the front runner for the Memphis job.

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    Lobo Lair King lbc7's Avatar
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    McNesse State has hired former Wyoming coach Heath Schroyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zygote View Post
    My. Gottfried is now playing in the minors. Wasn’t it just a year ago on this board when some doubted we had the $$ to lure him here?
    Yep, and he’s a great hire for them. Really surprised that he would accept that job.

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    Penny Hardaway will become the next head coach for Memphis.
    From ESPN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbc7 View Post
    Penny Hardaway will become the next head coach for Memphis.
    From ESPN.
    That was my favorite NBA player for the few years he was healthy. It will be interesting to see how he does there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmccrack View Post
    That was my favorite NBA player for the few years he was healthy. It will be interesting to see how he does there.
    He wasn't my favorite, but he was one of my favorites.

    Break out your old Air Pennies and grab a bag of popcorn. Hopefully he does well.

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    It appears he has been doing AAU and High School coaching for a while now.
    JulieG
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