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  1. #121
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    Sorry: what’s your point? Because we haven’t experienced huge success in football we should fold up its tents? Because we have yet to be ranked - must mean football isn’t important to the state, university, or even a quality of life issue?

    Frankly, UNM’s athletic budget is more important than whether your memory or 72’s is best. In your case - supplemented by the internet.

    Utah Lobo - I assume, if indeed you now reside in Utah, you are there for a reason. I do know many Lobo graduates are no longer residing in our state, because our state cannot compete with jobs and other quality of life issues offered by even those states surrounding ours. I do know by continually refusing to invest in programs that apparently matter to huge populations, our state will continuously remain in the bottom 5 of meaningful categories to others, and our friends and family will continue to depart.

    Let’s not pretend that because we have been so stubborn to realize footballs importance to a state and/or university and invest appropriately - that others across our nation share our stubbornness.

    There is a reason why your internet’s research indicates we have never been ranked. One might say - same reason why when you expand your internet research, our state continuously ranks so low in other categories as well.
    No offense, but that was kinda all over the place. I'll try to tackle some of your key points tho-

    1. If you don't know the significance of a college football team not being ranked ever in it's 100+ years of football, then I would kinda question your knowledge of college football.

    2. Yes, I travel frequently for work, but reside in Utah. I do purchase season tickets for basketball. Obviously, I only make a few games a year, if that, but I want to support lobo basketball. It's not a lot, but I do what I can.

    3. If New Mexico was good in football it would bring jobs to the state? Did I get that right?

    4. I appreciate your passion as a lobo enthusiast. My point, if it hasn't been made clear in previous posts, is to not put one extra dime into a football program that has no traditions or fan base. I feel it should go to basketball because it kinda has the most potential out of the major sports -football, basketball, baseball. I mean, if you're looking for fame and notoriety, you haven't ever and will never get it in New Mexico football.

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  3. #122
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboray's Avatar
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    Why hasn't NMSU dropped football down to DII?? One good year is not going to change their budget problems that much is it? No conference now. Perfect time to make the move. If it makes sense to do, why don't the Aggies do it?? They probably have done some studies. What did they glean would come from such a move? Again, why haven't they done it?


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  5. #123
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post
    Wow. One time in a poll that doen't matter.
    Why did that poll not matter? If it was the UPI poll, in that time it was considered on about the same level as the AP poll (there was no Coaches poll). I guess if you weren't alive at that time, you wouldn't know that, but it is true.

    Anyway, I wasn't trying to argue any point, other than that you have mentioned several times in your posts that UNM has never been ranked, and that's false.

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  7. #124
    TLL.com Womens Moderator Lobo2x53's Avatar
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    I have no idea why NMSU has/has not done anything.

    But NMSU has a FB team.

    Gonzaga, the hoped-for savior of the conference (well, that is hyperbole, but certainly a hoped-for major add to the conference) has no FB.

    Which is a better athletic situation to aspire to? Should we want to "be like NMSU"?

  8. #125
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loboaddict View Post
    Why did that poll not matter? If it was the UPI poll, in that time it was considered on about the same level as the AP poll (there was no Coaches poll). I guess if you weren't alive at that time, you wouldn't know that, but it is true.

    Anyway, I wasn't trying to argue any point, other than that you have mentioned several times in your posts that UNM has never been ranked, and that's false.


    (Once again lol) I'm saying UNM has never been ranked in the entirety of lobo football existence and you're telling me "wait, wait ... there was this ONE poll this ONE week and we were ranked like 25 of the 25 of this ONE poll."

  9. #126
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post
    No offense, but that was kinda all over the place. I'll try to tackle some of your key points tho-

    1. If you don't know the significance of a college football team not being ranked ever in it's 100+ years of football, then I would kinda question your knowledge of college football.

    2. Yes, I travel frequently for work, but reside in Utah. I do purchase season tickets for basketball. Obviously, I only make a few games a year, if that, but I want to support lobo basketball. It's not a lot, but I do what I can.

    3. If New Mexico was good in football it would bring jobs to the state? Did I get that right?

    4. I appreciate your passion as a lobo enthusiast. My point, if it hasn't been made clear in previous posts, is to not put one extra dime into a football program that has no traditions or fan base. I feel it should go to basketball because it kinda has the most potential out of the major sports -football, basketball, baseball. I mean, if you're looking for fame and notoriety, you haven't ever and will never get it in New Mexico football.
    Utah: While you may wish to pit football against basketball, I do not. I go to both, I invest in both (not just basketball as you do). Living here - I admit it is much easier for me to attend games.

    I had to edit my previous post, because at least according to anotherís research - we were ranked in football. You call it embarrassing to only being ranked once, I call it, regardless of the poll - you being embarrassed and wrong (perhaps a cheap shot - but, justified considering your idiotic knowledge remark directed at me). To expand - I would question your knowledge of Lobo Football and additionally Lobo Basketball.

    Years ago when others were investing in football - we platooned our players. Even today - CSU and others within our conference understand the importance of investments in football. But, letís discuss basketball first.

    Before Bob King - one would say our track record in basketball was no better than football. With King, came success with basketball, and boom we have us a PIT. Then for years we enjoyed many successful regular seasons. However, unless you exclude tourneys of decades ago, with smaller numbers of participants - never even a Sweet Sixteen can we boast. And, with lesser successful regular seasons (especially lately) - attendance dropped - and quickly. Last year we couldnít even top the Aztecs in numbers.

    Nevertheless - we did spend $60 million in PIT renovations. We have paid our HC at the top end of conference scales - and, were willing to raise all prices in an effort to retain Alford. So - letís not pretend we havenít invested in basketball. Accordingly, letís not pretend that basketball has always thrived.

    And, letís not pretend that football isnít important to those here and across the nation. Like it or not, College Football is still king when it comes to conferences and media contracts. We may never get into a P5 conference as you believe - but, last I checked Boise gets a larger piece of our revenue pie - and itís not because of their basketball program. Gonzaga isnít a MW Member partly because we werenít willing to give them a bigger basketball slice.

    35,000+ fans in the stands. In fact, an average of around 38,000 only a little over a decade ago. That would be Lobo Football in more successful times. Then came Krebs - then went Long - then came the brilliance of Locksley as a head coach. Instead of building upon Long as we had done with King - we gambled on a virtual unknown. Krebs and Lobo football lost.

    Nevertheless - donít operate on the assumption that no New Mexican cares about football. Donít throw out the assumption that had smart investments been made in the past, or good coaches hired or retained, that Football, not Basketball, would now be supporting UNM athletics. Not saying it as fact - only a possibility. However, if football was a bigger basis of support - the ceiling would be much higher, many more potential dollars.

    I do not wish to assume more jobs come to our state with a better football program. No need to wonder - they would. We all know more success breeds more fans. Basic math says more fans, more jobs. Just being able to retain the sports now being cut - keeps jobs.

    Sorry to have confused you: But, investments are necessary to build programs and reposition a team(s) and/or a State from staying in the cellar to reaching higher levels of success. Yours and others decision to not spend an extra dime in the past or potentially in the future on football is extremely foolish IMO.
    Last edited by RedSox87122; 04-13-2018 at 03:07 PM.
    ďA positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.Ē - Herm Albright

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  11. #127
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post

    (Once again lol) I'm saying UNM has never been ranked in the entirety of lobo football existence and you're telling me "wait, wait ... there was this ONE poll this ONE week and we were ranked like 25 of the 25 of this ONE poll."
    OK. Just so we agree, you're admitting that you're making sh** up then. Again, I'm not trying to argue anything. Just correcting something you said with a fact. You can diminish it all you want, I don't care.

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  13. #128
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you loboray's Avatar
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    I have no idea why NMSU has/has not done anything.
    
    But NMSU has a FB team.
    
    Gonzaga, the hoped-for savior of the conference (well, that is hyperbole, but certainly a hoped-for major add to the conference) has no FB.
    
    Which is a better athletic situation to aspire to? Should we want to "be like NMSU"?
    And the Zags did not get in. MWC didn't give them enough. If they had a D1 football program they would be in. BTW we have always been better than the Aggies in football and will be again.


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  15. #129
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loboaddict View Post
    OK. Just so we agree, you're admitting that you're making sh** up then. Again, I'm not trying to argue anything. Just correcting something you said with a fact. You can diminish it all you want, I don't care.
    What am I making up? The fact that your bringing up this one vote from this one week from this one random poll that doesn't matter proves that UNM will never be a football school lol. Fans like you are excited and praising this. Kansas has spent 109 weeks in the AP poll during it's history. Kansas. Yeah, that football powerhouse. Hardin-Simmons (yeah, I had to google the location- in Abilene, Texas) has spent 3 weeks in the poll. Just to put all that is perspective for you. But, obviously, the embarrassment that is UNM lobo football runs much deeper. The .483 overall record. Only won the conference four times. Three all-americans. The only team we have a winning record over in the Mountain West is Utah State. You read that correctly, one team out of eleven. Never spent a week in the ap top 25 poll and never had a top 25 recruiting class either. The facts are the facts. I think it's great that there were crowds of 35,000+ on a few occasions more than 10 years ago. But, as flagship university those numbers should be an embarrassment as well. Albeit, UNM is more commuter than a traditional flagship school.

    New Mexico has not, is not, will not be a football school. Our culture just doesn't support it. It's been over 100 years and spending any more money on it is a waste IMO.

    But, it does support basketball and we should take advantage.
    Last edited by LoboUtah; 04-13-2018 at 04:23 PM.

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  17. #130
    Lobo Lair King LoneLobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM Class of 1972 View Post
    Well, we did win a WAC Championship when the WAC included Arizona State, Arizona, Utah, and BYU. Also, we have finished high several times in the MWC. So, yes we can win the MWC in football some year soon. Fans need to step up in our major sports.

    There are only about 9,000-10,000 diehard football and basketball season ticket holders. Many, like me, are the same people for both sports. We need about 15.000-18,000 diehard season ticket holders and good walk up crowds for every game. Both sports have lost tons of fans since the days when the metro area was half the population. Does anyone remember when it was actually hard to get good season tickets for basketball. I doubt too many people do. They use to be scarce but now they are quite easy to get and you can get them almost anywhere in the Pit. Back in those days most decent games were totally sold out. How often has that happened in the past 20 years? Many of you were not even born back then.

    Fans in New Mexico need to step up whether you are a Lobo or an Aggie. Go to games like you did 40 years ago. I also hear too many Lobo fans talk about UNM as if it is an Albuquerque university. Wrong---it is the University of NEW MEXICO. The Lobos represent Deming, Hobbs, Farmington, and Las Vegas just as much as we represent the Albuquerque-Santa Fe area. We have Lobo fans and alums in Las Cruces, too. Just like they are many Aggie fans and alums in Albuquerque. Just support our state, our universities, and our students. If football and basketball can establish good attendance the non-revenue sports have a better shot.

    It is important that UNM never plays in a conference worse than the one we are in now. Without both football and basketball that could happen. That will be the day when I redirect my contributions totally to academic programs at UNM. I refuse to watch my Lobos play in a crap conference or crap NCAA division. If that ever happens I would propose we drop all athletic programs.
    You are correct!

    UNM won not just one, but three consecutive WAC championships. Yep, in 1962, 1963, and 1964 they went 2-1-1, 3-1, and 3-1 respectively to dominate the six team powerhouse conference. I couldn’t find detailed rosters but It would really be hard to imagine those teams being anything but loaded with New Mexico locals.

    Fast forward to the modern era where recruiting out-of-state players became a more common practice and our most successful run would be the three consecutive MWC 2nd place finishes, none of which included my example Brian Urlacher. My bad!

    Nope, those teams were led by a pair of New Mexico local standouts Dontrell Moore and Hank Baskett. Yep, even during our most competitive three year run only went 22-17 overall. Nope, it wasn’t just wins the fans came for. Any chance those guys actually chose UNM because they saw an unheralded kid from Lovington earn All-American honors and a twelfth (thanks utah) finish in the Heisman voting here just a couple years earlier? Nah! I guess that’s just not very realistic thinking according to some here...

    Yep, it was locals leading us to our most successful runs and the resulting largest crowds that kept up for a few years after. Take away those locals and New Mexicans aren’t going to invest much when so many struggle to simply survive...
    Last edited by LoneLobo; 04-13-2018 at 07:02 PM.
    GO LOBOS!





  18. #131
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneLobo View Post
    You are correct!

    UNM won not just one, but three consecutive WAC championships. Yep, in 1962, 1963, and 1964 they went 2-1-1, 3-1, and 3-1 respectively to dominate the six team powerhouse conference. I couldn’t find detailed rosters but It would really be hard to imagine those teams being anything but loaded with New Mexico locals.





    Fast forward to the modern era where recruiting out-of-state players became a more common practice and our most successful run would be the three consecutive MWC 2nd place finishes, none of which included my example Brian Urlacher. My bad!

    Nope, those teams were led by a pair of New Mexico local standouts Dontrell Moore and Hank Baskett. Yep, even during our most competitive three year run only went 22-17 overall. Nope, it wasn’t just wins the fans came for. Any chance those guys actually chose UNM because they saw an unheralded kid from Lovington earn All-American honors and an eighth place finish in the Heisman voting here just a couple years earlier? Nah! I guess that’s just not very realistic thinking according to some here...

    Yep, it was locals leading us to our most successful runs and the resulting largest crowds that kept up for a few years after. Take away those locals and New Mexicans aren’t going to invest much when so many struggle to simply survive...

    "Hey World,
    New Mexico football is kinda a big deal. We have won four conference titles. Yeah, and the closest we've come to a Heisman was 8th place*. Oh, and this one time, we had like a whole 30,000 fans in our stadium."

    Every P5 conference:




    *If you're referring to Brian Urlacher he finished 12th in the Heisman ballots.
    Last edited by LoboUtah; 04-13-2018 at 05:57 PM.

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  20. #132
    Lobo Lair King LoneLobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post
    "Hey World,
    New Mexico football is kinda a big deal. We have won four conference titles. Yeah, and the closest we've come to a Heisman was 8th place*. Oh, and this one time, we had like a whole 30,000 fans in our stadium."

    Every P5 conference:




    *If you're referring to Brian Urlacher he finished 12th in the Heisman ballots.
    Thanks for the correction but your comprehension(sarcasm meter) must be a bit off if you think I’m touting our greatness... but I’ll certainly try to be more obvious next time.

    I tend to think since we are seemingly destined to be forever mired in mediocrity, the investment should be in local people instead of those who are most likely to leave the state... invest in New Mexicans if we’re going to spend so much for that occaisional year we get it right... barring that they ought to drastically reduce scholarships or cut football altogether... the soccer team wouldn’t need the stadium upgraded. ;)
    GO LOBOS!





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  22. #133
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneLobo View Post
    barring that they ought to drastically reduce scholarships or cut football altogether... the soccer team wouldn’t need the stadium upgraded. ;)
    Love this idea.

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  25. #134
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Doublealum's Avatar
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    IMO, Cutting football will not mean other sports become "safe." If football and its subsidy went away (it comes from UNM's budget which come from the legislature ) I strongly suggest (based on the typical actions of our legislature when an Instition like UNM suddenly does not have an expense anymore for whatever reason) that money will disappear from UNM's budget all toghether - it will not go to help other sports nor the academic side of the university. I would bet such savings gets gobbled up by "pork" projects of the legislature. Then when they see the extra money for their pet projects from cutting football based on a "red" UNM athletic budget, they will put pressure for the rest of athletics to "make" budget which means more cuts. It will be easier for legislators from outside Albuquerque or the region to cut swimming, softball, soccer, baseball etc. than a direct attack on football. It may be counter-intuitive for some but protecting football,is the best defense against losing the so called "Olympic" sports. One must not just look at athletic's budget and # of schollies in a vacuum but rather strategically in the context of the way our legislature has historically behaved. It's just my opinion but it is informed by a quite a bit of experience. Food for thought fellow Lobos and Lair members.

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  27. #135
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    http://www.santafenewmexican.com/opi...187d108e6.html

    From James Barron's opinion article from the Santa Fe New Mexican speaking about UNM football:
    "It’s easy for the proponent of “X” sport that gets cut to point the finger at the university’s “sacred cows” for their demise and how money could be better spent. And they’re right. The university spends way too much money on football, which will never (and I mean never) compete for a national title or even register as a blip on that radar screen. In fact, any university or college with a football program that is not a part of the Power 5 conferences is essentially throwing money out the window trying to compete with them."

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  30. #136
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    not well informed...most P5 schools are in the same boat...

  31. #137
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom View Post
    not well informed...most P5 schools are in the same boat...
    No P5 school has this record-
    http://www.winsipedia.com/new-mexico

    Nor are they begging for money like UNM.

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  34. #138
    Pack Leader. TioLobo's Avatar
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    Hmmm, listening to the brain trust in Santa Fe always has held New Mexico back.




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  36. #139
    Alpha Wolf Riches6's Avatar
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    Bottom line....football is necessary for UNM. End of story.

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  38. #140
    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TioLobo View Post
    Hmmm, listening to the brain trust in Santa Fe always has held New Mexico back.

    Yeah, let's blame the "brain trust in Santa Fe" for us sucking at football for 100 years.

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    Lobo Dog LoboUtah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riches6 View Post
    Bottom line....football is necessary for UNM. End of story.
    Try telling that to the 35,000 fans not attending football games in an already meager 40,000 seat stadium.

  40. #142
    Pack Leader. TioLobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post
    Yeah, let's blame the "brain trust in Santa Fe" for us sucking at football for 100 years.

    Yes, and losing Microsoft to Oregon, and losing the filming of virtually every blockbuster in New Mexico, and the Tesla battery plant. and Intel, Que no?




  41. #143
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNMerciful_1's Avatar
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    Aren't there scholarships for cheerleading and dance teams that count towards Title IX compliance?

  42. #144
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    We presently need football to stay in the Conference, at least until Gonzaga comes in. This conference only has a few schools that really support football and it is obvious which ones they are. It looks like we might be trying a different tack this year offensively and maybe that will work, who knows, but I don't see the powers that be trying to shut the sport down at this time.
    JulieG
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  44. #145
    Donor loborick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post
    http://www.santafenewmexican.com/opi...187d108e6.html

    From James Barron's opinion article from the Santa Fe New Mexican speaking about UNM football:
    "It’s easy for the proponent of “X” sport that gets cut to point the finger at the university’s “sacred cows” for their demise and how money could be better spent. And they’re right. The university spends way too much money on football, which will never (and I mean never) compete for a national title or even register as a blip on that radar screen. In fact, any university or college with a football program that is not a part of the Power 5 conferences is essentially throwing money out the window trying to compete with them."
    Barron covers high school sports for the New Mexican.

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  46. #146
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    Barron covers high school sports for the New Mexican.
    what's the return on investment for high school football in Santa Fe?

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  48. #147
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNM Class of 1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post
    Try telling that to the 35,000 fans not attending football games in an already meager 40,000 seat stadium.
    You are a troll, Mr. Libit.

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    Why is anyone even responding to this Utah troll???

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    I think talk of cutting football is crazy. Im not saying there are some hard truths in those who propose it but there is still something about college football and the community that is still important in my opinion. Football needs support if your going to do it but they also have to carry their weight. I have said this multiple times but maybe this University has to play two pay games a year. Thats two games on the road in which the football team will be overmatched. I know coaches hate it because of possible injuries and the like. These pay days are going up. I have seen some as high as $1.5 million. Football attendance is down across the country. Just in 2016, the football team did win 9 games and probably should have won two more and were close to playing in the championship game. The program will always be up and down and Albuquerque fans are notorious for walking up and buying tickets on game day so your season ticket base will not always be there. Im disappointed in the Davie controversy because it takes away from the actual young men in the program who dedicate so much time and and effort to go to school and train and play football.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboUtah View Post


    (Once again lol) I'm saying UNM has never been ranked in the entirety of lobo football existence and you're telling me "wait, wait ... there was this ONE poll this ONE week and we were ranked like 25 of the 25 of this ONE poll."
    Shifting into Casey Kasem mode I recall two non consecutive weeks at #20 in 1982. In those days, the polls were only top 20. Then they went on to win their "bowl' game.

    http://newsok.com/article/2007055
    Last edited by Darkside; 04-16-2018 at 08:33 AM.

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