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  1. #91
    Donor JulieG's Avatar
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    From where we seem to be at this moment we all have our own beliefs and we hold onto them tightly. In order to try to improve this issue, which is complex and doesn't have absolute solutions, we need to not add other issues to make this issue even less focused. If we are sincere in working to come to some sort of consensus about what is doable then we need to focus on what, in each of ours eyes is a solution, not just a diversion to muddy the waters.
    JulieG
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  3. #92
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    VWolf - There are many things wrong today. First and foremost is attitudes to try to end debate by taking personal jabs, disparaging others.

    For a week now, people here have discussed this topic without taking personal jabs. Elmassuave has done so. You may disagree with his views or articles posted - but, discussion is necessary if change is to be enacted.

    Please discuss in a manner to not try to stifle debate. Thanks
    There is nothing stifling about restricting the conversation to legitimate news sources, or at least calling them out when they are complete BS.

    Is it disparaging to recognize that spreading false news is one of the main problems in our country today? Maybe, but it is also the truth.

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  5. #93
    Super Moderator Peacesells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWolf View Post
    There is nothing stifling about restricting the conversation to legitimate news sources, or at least calling them out when they are complete BS.

    Is it disparaging to recognize that spreading false news is one of the main problems in our country today? Maybe, but it is also the truth.
    You almost had it right...then you went and labeled someone as "what's wrong with America." You think that type of statement encourages or discourages productive debate?
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

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  7. #94
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Hate to post this after such a good win tonight, but . . .

    RIO RANCHO, N.M. (KRQE) – Rio Rancho Police are investigating a possible threat targeting Rio Rancho High School.
    On Tuesday, a social media post went out saying, “I am going to shoot up Rio Rancho High School tomorrow.” It goes on to say the shooter will target the humanities and fine arts buildings.
    Police say they were first made aware of the threat just before 8 p.m.
    Rio Rancho Police are actively investigating and are coordinating with Rio Rancho Public Schools to provide extra police presence.

    http://krqe.com/2018/02/20/police-in...o-high-school/


    Maybe just a kid not wanting to go to school tomorrow?? However - everyone needs to be aware. Sad - sad - times for our school children.
    Last edited by RedSox87122; 02-20-2018 at 10:02 PM.
    “A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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  9. #95
    Lobo Lair Legend bmccrack's Avatar
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    Unfortunately now we see the rash of threats in the wake of this event. Both Los Lunas and Belen high schools received threats yesterday and a current BHS student has been arrested in connection with the threat at his high school. You want to be gracious and give kids the benefit of the doubt but unfortunately we can no longer afford to do so in these cases.

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  11. #96
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    The school resource officer at the high school took up a position viewing the western entrance of the building that was under attack for more than four minutes, but "he never went in," Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at a Thursday news conference. The shooting lasted about six minutes.The officer, Scot Peterson, was suspended without pay and placed under investigation, then chose to resign, Israel said. When asked what Peterson should have done, Israel said the deputy should have "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer." https://myconnection.cox.com/article...-a5f349bf7582/

    The police officer who was on patrol at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14 resigned Thursday after video surveillance showed he never entered the school amid the mass shooting.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/22...riff-says.html
    _________________________________________________
    So the officer assigned to the school simply remained outside the building for more than 4 minutes, listening to gun fire, people screaming and being killed. Oh my - could this story get any worse??
    “A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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  13. #97
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you mdanger007's Avatar
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    Sen. Heinrich is proposing to allow gun violence to be studied as a health risk (it was banned in 1996).

    For people on all sides of the debate, getting the data should be a good start to understanding this country's terrible shooting affliction.






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  15. #98
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacesells View Post
    You almost had it right...then you went and labeled someone as "what's wrong with America." You think that type of statement encourages or discourages productive debate?
    It doesn't matter. It just lets rational people know that the news source is in question, and then they can look it up and see that I was right on that. The others will just keep believing the same old BS they want to keep believing, no matter what anyone says on here.

  16. #99
    Super Moderator Peacesells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWolf View Post
    no matter what anyone says on here.
    If that's the case you shouldn't have bothered posting at all.

    And it was pretty obvious that news source was highly suspect. Agree with you fully there.
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

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  18. #100
    Super Moderator Peacesells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdanger007 View Post
    Sen. Heinrich is proposing to allow gun violence to be studied as a health risk (it was banned in 1996).

    For people on all sides of the debate, getting the data should be a good start to understanding this country's terrible shooting affliction.
    It's not banned, it's restricted. And, they've done some studies. The problem is funding. Appropriations aren't made for the study of gun deaths..they have to do it out of their general fund.

    Let's be accurate here when making statements.
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

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  20. #101
    Donor MaxLobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdanger007 View Post
    Sen. Heinrich is proposing to allow gun violence to be studied as a health risk (it was banned in 1996).

    For people on all sides of the debate, getting the data should be a good start to understanding this country's terrible shooting affliction.
    Discussing guns as a health risk is interesting. I would be interested to see the risks in context with all other quantified health risks (cars, suicides, swimming pool drownings, etc.)

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  22. #102
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNMerciful_1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdanger007 View Post
    Sen. Heinrich is proposing to allow gun violence to be studied as a health risk (it was banned in 1996).

    For people on all sides of the debate, getting the data should be a good start to understanding this country's terrible shooting affliction.
    It was called the Dickey amendment. It's really sad that it's basically illegal for the government to study the gun issue. If you were ever curious how strong the NRA is, that's your answer.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996)
    Last edited by UNMerciful_1; 02-22-2018 at 09:10 PM.

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  24. #103
    Super Moderator Peacesells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNMerciful_1 View Post
    It was called the Dickey amendment. It's really sad that it's basically illegal for the government to study the gun issue. If you were ever curious how strong the NRA is, that's your answer.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996)
    The very link you provide discredits the illegal claim. There are restrictions but it is not illegal or banned.
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

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  26. #104
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacesells View Post
    If that's the case you shouldn't have bothered posting at all.

    And it was pretty obvious that news source was highly suspect. Agree with you fully there.

    You missed the part where I was saying it was for other, rational, people's sake. I won't convince that other poster. Nobody but Trump and Dana Loesch could do that. But at least I am pointing out that the notion that these kids were paid actors is highly suspect, so that others don't think it was real.

  27. #105
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNMerciful_1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacesells View Post
    The very link you provide discredits the illegal claim. There are restrictions but it is not illegal or banned.
    I used the term "basically illegal", but however you want to slice it, the effect is that the CDC isn't able to study gun violence because of the NRA's efforts. One has to ask themself why is the NRA so scared that they don't even want us studying the issue?
    http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...nap-story.html

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  29. #106
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWolf View Post
    You missed the part where I was saying it was for other, rational, people's sake. I won't convince that other poster. Nobody but Trump and Dana Loesch could do that. But at least I am pointing out that the notion that these kids were paid actors is highly suspect, so that others don't think it was real.
    And, you missed Peacesells’ point that you could have made your remarks, pointing out your opposition to another’s referenced site, without insulting that person.

    I take that back! You didn’t miss Peacesells point at all - you simply ignored it for you didn’t care. You clearly intended to insult the person by telling him he is what is wrong with America. You wished to shut him up - perhaps you did, as he hasn’t posted on this thread since.

    Now - to me, that is what is wrong with America. Don’t debate others who disagree - simply insult them and hope they go away. Funny though - You sure wish to debate Peacesells regarding your insulting remark.

    BTW - I have noticed that you haven’t offered any real or potential solutions to the problem the thread was originated to address.

    Thanks for for stopping by, however, to issue your insult - Guess the thread has run its course - perhaps it’s time to lock it.

    That should work for you - shut down all discussion entirely.
    Last edited by RedSox87122; 02-23-2018 at 01:56 PM.
    “A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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  31. #107
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Scott's Avatar
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    I hope this thread doesn't get locked. It might seem like there's nothing a fan-based sports board can do, but the more stimulating conversation we get anywhere in this country the more we have a chance of having a ripple effect. The more we put out there, the more we listen to reasonable opposing views, the better chance we have of inspiring some thoughtful discussion where it matters most. And just maybe that discussion might affect what we expect of our elected officials and civic leaders, and perhaps even who we vote for.

    On threats in schools - I'm thinking this has happened in many areas since Valentine's Day. We've had our share of incidents to look into in the school system I work for.
    Last edited by Scott; 02-23-2018 at 05:17 PM.

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  33. #108
    The Lobo Lair Chosen RedSox87122's Avatar
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    Thanks Scott - that is all I wanted when I started this discussion. Now, for over a week - many posts and views have been registered. With such a hot, emotional, and yes political topic - I am also encouraged that most that have posted, have done so in a manner wishing to further the debate.

    Some may take satisfaction that Dana Loesch was called vile names and her life threatened on CNN the other night for her position. I may not agree with her regarding her stance on every issue, but those acting as they did the other night - solves nothing. I find it disgusting! Fact is - most often it only gets people who disagree to dig in harder.

    Whether any changes regarding guns are made - at least Trump conducted some sittings to listen to those kids and families affected last week, and others in control offering some solutions. At least many were able to tune in to hear more than a politician for once. At least, more than a week later, this issue hasn’t been overtaken by another event. Discussion - is a must.

    Maybe foolish, but I am optimistically cautious that some changes will be forthcoming. It seems Florida is well on its way to enacting some changes. I also must believe that the FBI is reassessing its inaction - and I am glad that the law officer, who refused to engage, is no longer a law officer. 17 dead though - seems that officer should have to be more accountable.

    All that said - I certainly hope more comes from all of this - all the loss of life - than simply giving our teachers guns and crossing our fingers!!
    “A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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  35. #109
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Scott's Avatar
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    How I wish things weren't so polarized at this time in our world.

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  37. #110
    Super Moderator Peacesells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNMerciful_1 View Post
    I used the term "basically illegal", but however you want to slice it, the effect is that the CDC isn't able to study gun violence because of the NRA's efforts. One has to ask themself why is the NRA so scared that they don't even want us studying the issue?
    http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...nap-story.html
    Thanks for the link. I take no issue with your stance...just wish we all didn't use inaccurate words because most people read headlines and not the stories. Very few people dig for info.
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

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  39. #111
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Scott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacesells View Post
    Thanks for the link. I take no issue with your stance...just wish we all didn't use inaccurate words because most people read headlines and not the stories. Very few people dig for info.
    And sometimes you don't have to dig very deep to see some simple truths.

  40. #112
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you elmassuave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    The school resource officer at the high school took up a position viewing the western entrance of the building that was under attack for more than four minutes, but "he never went in," Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at a Thursday news conference. The shooting lasted about six minutes.The officer, Scot Peterson, was suspended without pay and placed under investigation, then chose to resign, Israel said. When asked what Peterson should have done, Israel said the deputy should have "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer." https://myconnection.cox.com/article...-a5f349bf7582/

    The police officer who was on patrol at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14 resigned Thursday after video surveillance showed he never entered the school amid the mass shooting.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/22...riff-says.html
    _________________________________________________
    So the officer assigned to the school simply remained outside the building for more than 4 minutes, listening to gun fire, people screaming and being killed. Oh my - could this story get any worse??
    Now Jake Tapper at CNN is reporting that the Coral Springs police officers claim three additional Broward County deputies were outside the school but failed to go inside as well. They quote “Coral Springs sources” who said the three “deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles” when Coral Springs officers arrived. They said “not one of [the deputies] had gone into the school.”
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/polit...ies/index.html
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  42. #113
    Super Moderator Peacesells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmassuave View Post
    Now Jake Tapper at CNN is reporting that the Coral Springs police officers claim three additional Broward County deputies were outside the school but failed to go inside as well. They quote “Coral Springs sources” who said the three “deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles” when Coral Springs officers arrived. They said “not one of [the deputies] had gone into the school.”
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/polit...ies/index.html
    That's a bit strange for 3 not to approach. I wonder what protocol is? Are they trained to hold back and wait for backup?
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

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  44. #114
    Super Moderator Peacesells's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmassuave View Post
    Now Jake Tapper at CNN is reporting that the Coral Springs police officers claim three additional Broward County deputies were outside the school but failed to go inside as well. They quote “Coral Springs sources” who said the three “deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles” when Coral Springs officers arrived. They said “not one of [the deputies] had gone into the school.”
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/polit...ies/index.html
    That's a bit strange for 3 not to approach. I wonder what protocol is? Are they trained to hold back and wait for backup?
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

  45. #115
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you elmassuave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacesells View Post
    That's a bit strange for 3 not to approach. I wonder what protocol is? Are they trained to hold back and wait for backup?
    According to Broward County Sheriff Israel, the deputies should have "went in. Addressed the killer. Killed the killer."

    "Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff's deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school."

    "The resentment among Coral Springs officials toward Broward County officials about what they perceived to be a dereliction of duty may have reached a boiling point..."
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/polit...ies/index.html
    Last edited by elmassuave; 02-23-2018 at 09:46 PM. Reason: typo
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  47. #116
    Wolf bigfred1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    Crisco - we are having a good discussion here regarding school violence. Most are doing a great job - have shown great intellect - and are trying to avoid party politics, triggering others to respond. Since I started this thread - I will say, your comment is unwelcome. It will snowball and end any meaningful discussion, and simply lock the thread.

    Therefore, I ask that you find another forum if you wish to discuss your wall, etc.
    BS. this entire discussion is political in nature and does not belong anywhere near this board.
    How about that upcoming UNLV game?!

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  49. #117
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you zoom's Avatar
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    That's a bit strange for 3 not to approach. I wonder what protocol is? Are they trained to hold back and wait for backup?
    Thought they were the back up...but wouldn't want them to go against ant DOJ protocol...


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  50. #118
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNM Class of 1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacesells View Post
    It's not banned, it's restricted. And, they've done some studies. The problem is funding. Appropriations aren't made for the study of gun deaths..they have to do it out of their general fund.

    Let's be accurate here when making statements.
    Yes, and restricted due to the underhanded motives of the pro-NRA backer Congressmen.

  51. #119
    Lobo Lair Legend bmccrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSox87122 View Post
    Thanks Scott - that is all I wanted when I started this discussion. Now, for over a week - many posts and views have been registered. With such a hot, emotional, and yes political topic - I am also encouraged that most that have posted, have done so in a manner wishing to further the debate.

    Some may take satisfaction that Dana Loesch was called vile names and her life threatened on CNN the other night for her position. I may not agree with her regarding her stance on every issue, but those acting as they did the other night - solves nothing. I find it disgusting! Fact is - most often it only gets people who disagree to dig in harder.

    Whether any changes regarding guns are made - at least Trump conducted some sittings to listen to those kids and families affected last week, and others in control offering some solutions. At least many were able to tune in to hear more than a politician for once. At least, more than a week later, this issue hasn’t been overtaken by another event. Discussion - is a must.

    Maybe foolish, but I am optimistically cautious that some changes will be forthcoming. It seems Florida is well on its way to enacting some changes. I also must believe that the FBI is reassessing its inaction - and I am glad that the law officer, who refused to engage, is no longer a law officer. 17 dead though - seems that officer should have to be more accountable.

    All that said - I certainly hope more comes from all of this - all the loss of life - than simply giving our teachers guns and crossing our fingers!!
    I agree that arming teachers is not the answer. Some teachers may be able to be an effective line of defense with a weapon but I think it's a vast minority. It's disconcerting that it appers those that were paid to protect students in this instance instead protected themselves.

    A retired APD Officer who is in charge of security for my employer divides people into 3 categories: wolves (a small minority who seek to do harm to others), sheep (the vast majority who want to live in peace with everyone else) and watch dogs (a small minority who instinctively take action when they see a crisis situation). If we can't count on those we've hired specifically to be "watch dogs" to act like it how can we expect teachers to?

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  53. #120
    Donor JulieG's Avatar
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    It was pretty apparent that having an armed sheriff's deputy on the grounds is no guarantee as well:-( People who are in a position to protect others have to have more than a weapon.
    JulieG
    Loyal Lobo fan since 1962


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