Not a Mid Major according to Cousin Franny and ESPN

[LoboCubs23]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/previe...ran&id=4641662

The Mountain West is not listed anywhere in this article... finally some respect! Then again this is my dear cousin Franny we are talking about and he is a little bias by coaching in this league, but Ill take it anyway!

[The Crow]

or we were completely left out..

[Wolfen1]

or we were completely left out..

I got the same feeling after skimming through the article, but my first thought was Dis respect from Fran.

[LoboCubs23]

I doubt that he could just leave us off... ESPN has some ethics and accountability in reporting. Im sure if they felt we were a mid major we would have been in that list. There is no way they would not have us as a conference at least equal to the WAC...

[BoRealist]

I think the MWC was left out. I was in a chat a 2 years ago with a gentleman named Wellsington (I believe??) who was ESPN's mid major analyst back then concerning the Bubble during the conference tourney's. I asked him why he never mentioned the MWC in his chat when discussing mid major bubble teams and his response was something along these lines.

I do not consider the MWC to be a mid major because they have large football programs and spend way more money on coaching and athletics in general. They are not competitive enough to be considered part of the Big boys. In-fact, he said ... the MWC might be the one true Mid-Major conference out there. They are much larger than the so called "mid majors" and yet still smaller than and not as highly regarded as the true high-majors.

Needless to say, I was pissed. ESPN treats the MWC as an after thought and only talks about us when forced to.

[LoboCubs23]

So we want to be called a Mid Major???? I find the term insulting... To each their own I guess right?

[BoRealist]

So we want to be called a Mid Major???? I find the term insulting... To each their own I guess right?

No, but I want the conference to be talked about.

[LoboCubs23]

At some point we cant complain about everything. And we shouldnt be so dang negative all the time.

If we werent on this list you can draw one of two conclusions. 1. ESPN or Fran does not consider us a Mid Major program because we are too big and too competitive to be a mid major, or 2. Fran thought us worse then a mid major.

Using the knowledge we have, and comparing the MWC to other conferences on that list, the only logical conclusion is that we were not included because from a basketball stand point we are too big and too competitive to be a mid major. If we are not a mid major then we are a high major by this logic. There is not a "Mid High major level". I understand being the little guy and the back against the wall thing, but not everything is a slight or an insult!

[The Crow]

So we would be a mid/high major? I'm good with that, I don't see us as a mid major, but it seems like the rest of the country does.

[LoboCubs23]

So we would be a mid/high major? I'm good with that, I don't see us as a mid major, but it seems like the rest of the country does.

But there isnt a mid high major... and I think this article implies that we are not a mid major so we must be a high major... maybe the last on the totem pole high major, but nevertheless a high major.

If I sound bitter its because it seems like people in general in New Mexico (and not everyone) likes being the victim... like to make things look as bleak and dark as possible.. ie Alex Kirk going from the future of our program to a 6'8 middle of the rung recruit one day when he was flirting with Arizona, or like Brutus calling him a 6'9 PF when he is really not. We like being the underdog around here I think. I personally dont, I want to be the big dog in the house. IF you believe your always the victim or the underdog then thats who you are. If you believe your the big dog then thats who you are. I prefer the big dog, and I think we all could do alot better if we believed in ourselves just a little more... Off my soap box now!

[BoRealist]

Umm, LC, where has ESPN or the national media ever referred to the MWC as a high major?? It's a slight. Don't you think that's kind of like deluding yourself? Telling yourself that the Lobo's are a high major just because you want it to be so. Until we have an official seat at the table and a BCS auto invite every year, we are considered a mid-major. It's not what I believe or want to believe ... it's just how we are treated by the rest of the NCAA's.

[Louiefan]

I'm not sure if they follow the same logic but if you ever read Mid Majority they set the "red line" between conferences with an average athletic budget of +/- $20 million. According to the breakdown, the WAC is the first of the Mid Majors.
http://www.midmajority.com/redline.php

[The Crow]

But there isnt a mid high major... and I think this article implies that we are not a mid major so we must be a high major... maybe the last on the totem pole high major, but nevertheless a high major.

If I sound bitter its because it seems like people in general in New Mexico (and not everyone) likes being the victim... like to make things look as bleak and dark as possible.. ie Alex Kirk going from the future of our program to a 6'8 middle of the rung recruit one day when he was flirting with Arizona, or like Brutus calling him a 6'9 PF when he is really not. We like being the underdog around here I think. I personally dont, I want to be the big dog in the house. IF you believe your always the victim or the underdog then thats who you are. If you believe your the big dog then thats who you are. I prefer the big dog, and I think we all could do alot better if we believed in ourselves just a little more... Off my soap box now!

Easy Cub.....Easy...

[LoboCubs23]

Umm, LC, where has ESPN or the national media ever referred to the MWC as a high major?? It's a slight. Don't you think that's kind of like deluding yourself? Telling yourself that the Lobo's are a high major just because you want it to be so. Until we have an official seat at the table and a BCS auto invite every year, we are considered a mid-major. It's not what I believe or want to believe ... it's just how we are treated by the rest of the NCAA's.

Where did you read that it was a slight? Neither point was made therefore you have to infer and draw conclusions, and like I said you could draw three inferences or conclusions from the article... 1. that we are not a mid major so we must be a high major, 2. we aren't a mid major so we are a low major or 3. It was a slight. Knowing what we know about the situation, using other evidence, such as bids, rankings ect. we can infer that we are a much more competitive then any of the conferences or teams mentioned. Therefore we are not lower then they are, so we must be higher as the evidence shows.

Of course you could say that it was a slight, but that what be mere speculation as there are no other hard facts that back up that point you could argue that we arent on ESPN at all, so they just left us out, but you dont know Fraschilla's motives or ESPN's motives, and therefore it is just speculation. I like to lean on the facts!

The fact we arent in the article does not act as a slight... It gives us respect as we are a better conference then any of those listed. If we belonged in the group we would have been included. The facts bear out that we are a more competitive, so logically the inference here is that we are not a mid major, and we are not a low major so we must be a high major.

[BoRealist]

I like to speculate. I can use your facts as back-up for the argument that it's a slight too. Aren't you making inferences and speculating?? I'm confused?

[judas_priest]

The fact that Fran also didn't discuss Conference USA suggests that, at least in his mind, the MWC is "high-major." Note that there is an interesting dichotomy in usage. Does "high-major" refer to conferences or teams? If the latter, then Butler and Gonzaga are clearly high-major and Dayton may be. (I will not comment on MWC teams since it's easier to be objective without them. If conferences, since when is Memphis not a high major?

[lobotracks]

Espn, will not give the MWC a ounce of pub, ever since we moved away from Big Monday and went to CBS , they try to make sure that highlights are shown at a minumum.
With MWC football becoming more and more of a player on the larger seen it has become very difficut for ESPN to ingore the MWC conferences and others they are not connect with one of their TV stations (espn. abc).

With 3 teams in the top 25 it has now become nearly impossible for the MWC to be ingored any longer , if the rumors are true about a expansion to the BCS and league expansion I would not be surprised to see some more espn games.

The BCS would be possibily gaining money if Bosie St joins the MWC, because that would be one less payout to a non-BCS school. The only team not in this group that has crash the BCS party is Hawaii.

[LoboCubs23]

Inferences are based on facts. The facts are that we have had more bids then those conferences, had more teams ranked, and have a higher power ranking as a conference then those listed. Using that as my bases I am able to infer that we are above the teams on the list.

Speculating is giving a guess as to how someone approached things. There is no evidence to say that we were snubbed. There is evidence to the fact that we are a better conference then the ones listed there, and even further backed up by Juddas' comments. That is my point. It all really depends on what you want and how you view things. I tend to be more positive. I guess you could take it your way, but I dont see it one bit!

[BoRealist]

Inferences are based on facts. The facts are that we have had more bids then those conferences, had more teams ranked, and have a higher power ranking as a conference then those listed. Using that as my bases I am able to infer that we have been slighted by not receiving public recognition and respect from national news pundents like ESPN for being equal to the high majors.

See.

[LoboCubs23]

Inferences are based on facts. The facts are that we have had more bids then those conferences, had more teams ranked, and have a higher power ranking as a conference then those listed. Using that as my bases I am able to infer that we have been slighted by not receiving public recognition and respect from national news pundents like ESPN for being equal to the high majors.

See.

No because this article was about Mid Majors not Major conferences. It only lists the Mid Majors, and we were not listed. You cant infer that from this article because thats not what this article was about.

If there were an article about Major conferences and we were left off then you could infer as much, but since they dont talk about the majors at all, you have to draw your own conclusion, and that could be either since we are not a mid major we are a low major, or since we are not a mid major we are a high major.

[BoRealist]

No because this article was about Mid Majors not Major conferences. It only lists the Mid Majors, and we were not listed. You cant infer that from this article because thats not what this article was about.

If there were an article about Major conferences and we were left off then you could infer as much, but since they dont talk about the majors at all, you have to draw your own conclusion, and that could be either since we are not a mid major we are a low major, or since we are not a mid major we are a high major.

Hmm, I see your point concerning this article. You are correct on that note. Though, I do feel that the conference does get slighted by the National media. I think the majority of us would agree on that.

[LoboCubs23]

I agree that we get slighted at times... No doubt... some of that is because we dared to cross ESPN with the MTN, of which we brought on ourselves... the rest of it is just East coast bias that we could never beat no matter how hard we try... unless we fight in meetings or pull players down by their pony tails that is!

Nice discussion!