The "Silent assassin" steps up for UNM as Lobos upset ninth-ranked Cougars

[LOBO-CHAV]

For those of you that need that newspaper fix try the Santafenewmexican.com, it is a free site and the sports writers are fabulous.

Will Webber is the Lobo BB beat writer and has no "agenda".

Once on the site, click on sports and read a fine article, The "Silent assassin" steps up for UNM as Lobos upset ninth-ranked Cougars.

It was nice to get on the Lobo Lair and find suggested sites and read real professional articles about the Lobos in sites from the Deseret News to the Washington Post. No need to even bother with the ABQ paper.

[loboray]

The Urinal can take their egotistical, destructive agenda toward Lobo men's basketball and stick it where the sun don't shine. Revenues at the Urinal will continue to sink. BTW, I too was very impressed with the articles in the Deseret News.

[catherine]

I agree about he article, but I heard him interviewed yesterday morning and he was hoping Jimmer would put up 50 ( said he knew hat would anger Lobo fans ... :)) He was honest that he's not necessarily a Lobo fan. But it doesn't look like he has an agenda either, which is refreshing.

[Duke]

Thanks.
The New Mexican got lots of love on here last season, because of the refreshingly written articles, without bias or negativity.
Thanks for calling attention to them again, Lobo-Chav. They definitely need to be in the rotation.

http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Spo...pset--the-nint

[Fideos]

Will Webber is a tard, he predicted Jimmer to get 50+ yesterday. The sportswriters for NM's papers are horrible.

[catherine]

Will Webber is a tard, he predicted Jimmer to get 50+ yesterday. The sportswriters for NM's papers are horrible.

But regardless of his personal view, he wrote a balanced article, which is what a reporter is supposed to do.

[Garishwolf]

Wow,,,,,,,,,that says a lot about the urinal,,if the newmexican is way better in their sports section,,,,,,,,they have better writers but no paper sport support.

[Louiefan]

Weber was with the Journal previously and covered the Topes last season but saw the light and took his talents to SF to get away from the agendas at the Urinal.

[RIDIC]

good article

[UWSLobo]

Good article, but at least one correction needs to be made.

"BYU's Jackson Emery is no stranger to The Pit. Aside from the four games he appeared as a Cougar, he played in the arena twice during his senior year at Lone Peak (Centennial, Utah) High School when it was one of four teams to take part in the nationally televised T-Mobile Invitational. "


It was Tyler Haws, now on mission, not Jackson Emery who played in The Pit a few years back. But Emery did graduate from the same school, Lone Peak, back in 05'.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps...one-peak_N.htm

[UWSLobo]

Jackson has a younger brother, Nick, who currently plays for Lone Pine and averages 22 points....and he's just a sophomore. Looks like we have not seen the last Emery in The Pit.

http://www.deseretnews.com/sports/hi...ick-Emery.html

[Howler]

Jackson has a younger brother, Nick, who currently plays for Lone Pine and averages 22 points....and he's just a sophomore. Looks like we have not seen the last Emery in The Pit.

http://www.deseretnews.com/sports/hi...ick-Emery.html

But who's he going to play for that we'll be seeing in the Pit? I'm hoping we don't schedule BYU or Utah again (especially BYU) once they're out of the MWC. BYU tried to take the conference down when they left.

[RIDIC]

But who's he going to play for that we'll be seeing in the Pit? I'm hoping we don't schedule BYU or Utah again (especially BYU) once they're out of the MWC. BYU tried to take the conference down when they left.

I agree. Utah and BYU should be considered UNM's biggest conference rivals over the years, however them splitting for "greener pastures" has to leave a bad taste in the mouths of Lobo fans. Especially BYU. They not only tried to leave, but also tried to destroy the MWC in the process. Trying to take UNLV, SDSU, TCU, etc with them to the WAC. UNM was not a school BYU wanted in the new WAC with them. Why? Because they think we are beneath them. The truth is that, historically, UNM basketball has been just as relevant nationally as BYU basketball has been. They can think they're better than us all they want, but in reality, UNM is staying in a very strong bball conference, and BYU is taking a HUGE step down into the WCC.

I say move forward and don't look back. After this season BYU is in UNM's past. Let them take their arrogance to a low major conference, and be done with it.

[James Staley]

Weber was with the Journal previously and covered the Topes last season but saw the light and took his talents to SF to get away from the agendas at the Urinal.

Nothing like somebody throwing some speculation onto a topic when they don't know what happened. But I guess it's cool when it's derogatory of the Journal, everybody's favorite whipping boy when anything Lobos hasn't gone as they hoped.

Criticize the media all you want, but I guess I don't see why this is a popular topic now, in light of the biggest win of the season. Some of the ideas thrown out in this thread are part of the reason some writers can have a jaded view of fans.

I don't see much of a tone difference in these two stories. I know both writers and have worked with people at both papers. Biggest difference is the byline.

[LoboCubs23]

Nothing like somebody throwing some speculation onto a topic when they don't know what happened. But I guess it's cool when it's derogatory of the Journal, everybody's favorite whipping boy when anything Lobos hasn't gone as they hoped.

Criticize the media all you want, but I guess I don't see why this is a popular topic now, in light of the biggest win of the season. Some of the ideas thrown out in this thread are part of the reason some writers can have a jaded view of fans.

I don't see much of a tone difference in these two stories. I know both writers and have worked with people at both papers. Biggest difference is the byline.

What I dont get Staley is why Journalists are so quick to defend each other... I understand the whole fraternity thing, but if anyone anywhere insults a journalist 25 journalists are there to back that person up. Journalists have this arrogance about them that they are above reproach and it sickens me. Coming out of high school I had journalistic aspirations. I had won national awards and state awards for my work on the Sandian and at national conventions.... I had decided to pursue a career in journalism. I unfortunately didnt have the money to go straight to UNM and had to get my prereqs out of the way at TVI (now CNM) in my two years there I started noticing how negative the press was, and how sensitive and fraternal they were, and before transferring to UNM I decided to major in education instead. I love to write and I believe aside from my atrocious spelling that I am a pretty good writer, but it will be a cold day in hell before I become a member of the working media because of the way they push their agenda in such a negative way constantly.

[James Staley]

What I dont get Staley is why Journalists are so quick to defend each other... I understand the whole fraternity thing, but if anyone anywhere insults a journalist 25 journalists are there to back that person up. Journalists have this arrogance about them that they are above reproach and it sickens me. Coming out of high school I had journalistic aspirations. I had won national awards and state awards for my work on the Sandian and at national conventions.... I had decided to pursue a career in journalism. I unfortunately didnt have the money to go straight to UNM and had to get my prereqs out of the way at TVI (now CNM) in my two years there I started noticing how negative the press was, and how sensitive and fraternal they were, and before transferring to UNM I decided to major in education instead. I love to write and I believe aside from my atrocious spelling that I am a pretty good writer, but it will be a cold day in hell before I become a member of the working media because of the way they push their agenda in such a negative way constantly.

My point was not to defend anybody. I like message boards, but there is an inherent accountability issue with anonymous, unedited commentary fed to the public. Louiefan gave an example of this when he said Will Webber left the Journal because of its agendas, implying these famed (ugh) anti-Lobo agendas. I know Will and almost all the writers in the metro area, including Santa Fe. I know why he left, and Louiefan is wrong.

You do make some interesting points, some media members can be fraternal and arrogant. I know some. But there are also plenty of solid professionals around, and there were even more when the Tribune was printing.

It sounds like you could have made a good contribution. One thing I don't get is, if you see the local media as so negative and it bothered you, why do you assume you'd be just like them if you went into writing?

[judas_priest]

All this Journal and Mark Smith bashing is doing what the Journal cannot do for itself - making the Journal relevant. For a media outlook, being ignored is far, far worse than being attacked.

[RIDIC]

What I dont get Staley is why Journalists are so quick to defend each other... I understand the whole fraternity thing, but if anyone anywhere insults a journalist 25 journalists are there to back that person up. Journalists have this arrogance about them that they are above reproach and it sickens me. Coming out of high school I had journalistic aspirations. I had won national awards and state awards for my work on the Sandian and at national conventions.... I had decided to pursue a career in journalism. I unfortunately didnt have the money to go straight to UNM and had to get my prereqs out of the way at TVI (now CNM) in my two years there I started noticing how negative the press was, and how sensitive and fraternal they were, and before transferring to UNM I decided to major in education instead. I love to write and I believe aside from my atrocious spelling that I am a pretty good writer, but it will be a cold day in hell before I become a member of the working media because of the way they push their agenda in such a negative way constantly.

Fantastic insight, LoboCubs.

My question for Staley would be this:

Do journalists and media-types realize that without the "common man"(or fans, in this case) they would be unemployed? Or is it more of a "I'll say and write whatever I want regardless of who it angers, because I'm something special" type of attitude?

People read what sportswriters write because they are sports fans. Nobody watches sports because of sportswriters. Ultimately, you are a writer or tv/radio personality, and that is all. When it comes to sports, and many other things, the media's existence simply doesn't matter. If nobody wrote about basketball, people would still watch basketball.

In sports, the players, coaches, and even fans are important. A sportswriter, radio talk show host, play-by-play guy, etc, are all expendable.

I think a big spoonful of humility is needed in American media, period.

[peacesells]

My point was not to defend anybody. I like message boards, but there is an inherent accountability issue with anonymous, unedited commentary fed to the public. Louiefan gave an example of this when he said Will Webber left the Journal because of its agendas, implying these famed (ugh) anti-Lobo agendas. You do make some interesting points, some media members can be fraternal and arrogant. I know some. But there are also plenty of solid professionals around, and there were even more when the Tribune was printing.

Unedited commentary provided on a message board does much less harm than unfactual editorialised comments by Mark Smith in a venue that has a much larger audience. When he attributes a comment (Aaron Johnson/Drew Gordon) that 1 (singular) fan makes as the voice of fans (in general) it is purposefully misleading. It is an obvious attempt to shape a story in a certain direction. Pure propaganda, not a reflection of facts. It no longer becomes reporting in any shape or form. Mark Smith is no longer the Lobo beat writer. He is pure color man/commentator. That is fine if that is how he is presented (it is not.) And if that is the role he is playing where is our beat reporter to provide "just the facts, man?"

[James Staley]

Fantastic insight, LoboCubs.

My question for Staley would be this:

Do journalists and media-types realize that without the "common man"(or fans, in this case) they would be unemployed? Or is it more of a "I'll say and write whatever I want regardless of who it angers, because I'm something special" type of attitude?

People read what sportswriters write because they are sports fans. Nobody watches sports because of sportswriters. Ultimately, you are a writer or tv/radio personality, and that is all. When it comes to sports, and many other things, the media's existence simply doesn't matter. If nobody wrote about basketball, people would still watch basketball.

In sports, the players, coaches, and even fans are important. A sportswriter, radio talk show host, play-by-play guy, etc, are all expendable.

I think a big spoonful of humility is needed in American media, period.

There are some in the media who see it was there job to get a reaction. I'm not a fan of that. So I get part of what you're saying.

In some ways journalists -- whether they be commentators or reporters -- shouldn't care if the content they provide angers part of the public. It's not their job to write what will make any particular subsection of the population happy, whether they be Lobo fans, or Republicans or vegetarians. Doesn't matter. As far as it pertains to Lobo sports, their job is to find and tell newsworthy and entertaining stories. Whether those stories upset some or make others happy isn't relevant, at least it shouldn't be. The media should know their audience, and have accurate and relevant coverage of what interests most of the community. But that doesn't mean they should write what people want to hear for the sake of keeping everybody happy.

That said, it's not their job to anger people or to artificially push some view across. I don't like that.

And maybe the media doesn't matter at the individual level. It's not that important who covers Lobo basketball, or politics or business or crime.

Fans, players and coaches don't matter all that much at an individual level either. Fans just have to be loyal, numerous and loud. Players and coaches have to win.

But it matters that all those elements are there.

[RIDIC]

There are some in the media who see it was there job to get a reaction. I'm not a fan of that. So I get part of what you're saying.

In some ways journalists -- whether they be commentators or reporters -- shouldn't care if the content they provide angers part of the public. It's not their job to write what will make any particular subsection of the population happy, whether they be Lobo fans, or Republicans or vegetarians. Doesn't matter. As far as it pertains to Lobo sports, their job is to find and tell newsworthy and entertaining stories. Whether those stories upset some or make others happy isn't relevant, at least it shouldn't be. The media should know their audience, and have accurate and relevant coverage of what interests most of the community. But that doesn't mean they should write what people want to hear for the sake of keeping everybody happy.

That said, it's not their job to anger people or to artificially push some view across. I don't like that.

And maybe the media doesn't matter at the individual level. It's not that important who covers Lobo basketball, or politics or business or crime.

Fans, players and coaches don't matter all that much at an individual level either. Fans just have to be loyal, numerous and loud. Players and coaches have to win.

But it matters that all those elements are there.

Ok, so, humor me. Why does it matter that the media "element" is there? If I can watch a basketball game, why do I need someone to tell me what happened?

[LOBO-CHAV]

Staley, Tell why one ABQ reporter digs to find something negative? When he can write stories that we the fans crave----for instance---Who is Tony Snell, whats his story? What is his relationship with Leonard, if any? Why pick UNM, etc. ; Kendall Williams was recruited early in his high school career to UCLA and Duke (I believe)---what's his story? Cameron Bairstow we very know little about. There are tons of story lines that the "fans" would love to hear about. WE already know the bleachers were busted by overzealous student fans, that Hunter Greene says "we" when covering the Lobos and that we had two evacuations---so? The Deseret News managed to get at least 4, count them FOUR quality, entertaining storie about the game. The generic AP story was even better than 99.9% of what the ABQ ------- beat writer writes. I say time to move on--- get your Lobo fix on this and other internet sites and read pregame stories from the opponents newspapers or from national publications. Reading a well researched, "non-agenda" article is so refreshing.

BY the way another good site is on the www.golobos.com site

[Burro lobo]

I posted in another article yesterday that the biggest problem with the written news and you could add some over the air media too is that they don't report the basic news, they all want to editorialize and give their slant so as to bend the facts to how they want it to be. The downfall of newspapers is that they are all slanted and people are tired of not getting the news. Although I'm so glad we have Alford for our coach the newspapers had a dislike for the previous coach and actually encouraged fans to not wast their time attending UNM games. McKay was not the coach that Alford is but the teams under him did not deserve the biased slant and negativity that was piled on them. The Danny Granger team was very good and they still got almost ignored because of the press and their agenda to hurt McKay. This was total BS and that A hole is back to his negativity and I hope he receives what he is dishing out, that would be the most even result we can hope for. Crappy gets crappy back, now that has a nice ring to it! A failing rag bites the dust for lack of sensing who their readers are.

[LoboCubs23]

.

It sounds like you could have made a good contribution. One thing I don't get is, if you see the local media as so negative and it bothered you, why do you assume you'd be just like them if you went into writing?

This may make your point about Smith a little, but I was also under the impression (and still am) that in order to sell newspapers the writing would have to have the slant that the employer was going for... and at the time we had Rick Wright and Richard Stevens writing negative upon negative article about a very successful Lobo program, and I decided I couldnt live my life being negative.

[RIDIC]

Ok, so, humor me. Why does it matter that the media "element" is there? If I can watch a basketball game, why do I need someone to tell me what happened?

Since Staley hasn't answered yet, I'll answer. lol

The answer is that if I CAN watch a game, I don't need anyone to tell me what happened. I only need someone to tell me what happened if I CAN'T watch a game. With this understanding, the media is a luxury, not a necessity. You can't play games without players and coaches. No one cares who wins or loses if there's no fans.

The problem with most media outlets is that they don't want to report the news, they want to BE the news.

ESPN is a perfect example of this. Look at what they have done to help change the landscape of college athletics. Ultimately, ESPN's existince is not important at all, yet they control so much based simply on money and a need to prove their relevance.

You seem like a pretty nice guy that tries to be a median in a lot of these discussions. I'm not very familiar with your work, but I appreciate you trying to be objective on these boards. However, you(and anyone else in the media) will be most effective at your job if you understand that what you do really doesn't matter.

[James Staley]

@ Ridic ... I don't think the media element is essential for a individual game. But I think it benefits the community to have a disinterested outsider watching the Lobos or any athletic program. As an example from a national story, it was a writer that unearthed all the shadiness surrounding Reggie Bush. But it's not just about gotcha moments. Before I left the Journal I did a lengthy piece on concussions among youth athletes, specifically local high school football players. For a while there were a lot of kids getting hurt, an unusual amount. I used that to find out how APS and other local entities deal with concussions, it was an explanatory piece more than anything. That's an important role of journalism too, not just gotcha stuff.

@ LOBO-CHAV ... A couple things ... First, there's not some mandate handed down from editors to dig for negative stories or to get UNM. Investigative reporters tend to do stories that show somebody in a bad light because that's the nature of shady dealings, nobody wants it to get out. Everybody wants good, positive stories out. ... I do agree with you that there could be more feature type stories about the personalities of the Lobos. Those are some of my favorite stories.

@ Burrolobo ... I don't know if it's a move toward opinion-tainted news that turned people off of newspapers. There's still a lot of good reporting out there with straight facts. And I do think there's room for color in stories (not the same as opinion), sometimes that gets misconstrued. Personally I think newspapers dug there own grave by not growing the the times. Writers lose out on immediacy that broadcast and electronic media have, but they can do more with depth of reporting. I don't think enough papers focused on this. I also think it was a mistake to make all these news websites free initially. What other business gives their product away?

@ LoboCubs 23 ... I worked on the staff of three papers, including both Albuquerque papers. In applying for those jobs and others, I never heard about a particular slant to which I was supposed to set my articles. No editor ever told me to go with a certain tone in a story. I do remember being assigned one story I didn't want to do. I thought it was piling on a former coach unnecessarily. Some fellow out-of-town journalists agreed with me, some thought it wasn't a big deal.

I guess I'd want to know more specific examples of what you're talking about with the negative coverage because that's often very subjective.

[RIDIC]

@ Ridic ... I don't think the media element is essential for a individual game. But I think it benefits the community to have a disinterested outsider watching the Lobos or any athletic program. As an example from a national story, it was a writer that unearthed all the shadiness surrounding Reggie Bush. But it's not just about gotcha moments. Before I left the Journal I did a lengthy piece on concussions among youth athletes, specifically local high school football players. For a while there were a lot of kids getting hurt, an unusual amount. I used that to find out how APS and other local entities deal with concussions, it was an explanatory piece more than anything. That's an important role of journalism too, not just gotcha stuff.

@ LOBO-CHAV ... A couple things ... First, there's not some mandate handed down from editors to dig for negative stories or to get UNM. Investigative reporters tend to do stories that show somebody in a bad light because that's the nature of shady dealings, nobody wants it to get out. Everybody wants good, positive stories out. ... I do agree with you that there could be more feature type stories about the personalities of the Lobos. Those are some of my favorite stories.

@ Burrolobo ... I don't know if it's a move toward opinion-tainted news that turned people off of newspapers. There's still a lot of good reporting out there with straight facts. And I do think there's room for color in stories (not the same as opinion), sometimes that gets misconstrued. Personally I think newspapers dug there own grave by not growing the the times. Writers lose out on immediacy that broadcast and electronic media have, but they can do more with depth of reporting. I don't think enough papers focused on this. I also think it was a mistake to make all these news websites free initially. What other business gives their product away?

@ LoboCubs 23 ... I worked on the staff of three papers, including both Albuquerque papers. In applying for those jobs and others, I never heard about a particular slant to which I was supposed to set my articles. No editor ever told me to go with a certain tone in a story. I do remember being assigned one story I didn't want to do. I thought it was piling on a former coach unnecessarily. Some fellow out-of-town journalists agreed with me, some thought it wasn't a big deal.

I guess I'd want to know more specific examples of what you're talking about with the negative coverage because that's often very subjective.

Very well thought out response to many people at once. lol. I guess my main problem is that I've grown up in an era where instant, or electronic, media has become more and more relevant over the years. I've also noticed that the integrity of the media has been on a steady decline with the rise of technology. I could be wrong. Maybe nothings changed. But, even if nothings changed, that doesn't mean that nothings wrong. Obviously some in the media are worse than others, but it still seems to me that the majority, and those with the power, have little to no integrity. I also feel that many people in this day and age are very easily pursuaded. On one side you have media outlets telling people what to think, on the other side you have the people listening and allowing themselves to be manipulated. This can be very dangerous. I guess responsibility needs to be taken on both sides. That's why I'm so quick to call out someone in the media that appears to be working with an agenda.

I know a lot of Lobo fans would rather not read ANYTHING on these boards regarding certain reporters and papers. I respect that and I can certainly understand why they feel that way. I'll try and keep my views on media somewhat in check, but when I hear or read some of the ridiculous comments that I've been hearing and reading this year, it's really hard for me to keep my mouth shut about it.

[LaVidaLobo]

The quickest way to (figuratively) kick Mark Smith in the nads is stop reading his trash and bash of the Lobos. Ignore him and ignore the paper he writes for. That will do much more damage than just reading his garbage and complaining about it. Boycott the Urinal. I know some people can't help themselves and it's like driving by a horrible car crash and their curiosity gets the better of them. They try not to look at his stuff, but they do. My advice is DON'T. As far as I'm concerned Mark Smith doesn't exist. His opinions mean nothing to me. I'd rather get poked in the eye with a sharp stick than read any more of his drivel about the Lobos. I encourage the rest of you to put him in the same category and walk away.

[James Staley]

Very well thought out response to many people at once. lol. I guess my main problem is that I've grown up in an era where instant, or electronic, media has become more and more relevant over the years. I've also noticed that the integrity of the media has been on a steady decline with the rise of technology. I could be wrong. Maybe nothings changed. But, even if nothings changed, that doesn't mean that nothings wrong. Obviously some in the media are worse than others, but it still seems to me that the majority, and those with the power, have little to no integrity. I also feel that many people in this day and age are very easily pursuaded. On one side you have media outlets telling people what to think, on the other side you have the people listening and allowing themselves to be manipulated. This can be very dangerous. I guess responsibility needs to be taken on both sides. That's why I'm so quick to call out someone in the media that appears to be working with an agenda.

I know a lot of Lobo fans would rather not read ANYTHING on these boards regarding certain reporters and papers. I respect that and I can certainly understand why they feel that way. I'll try and keep my views on media somewhat in check, but when I hear or read some of the ridiculous comments that I've been hearing and reading this year, it's really hard for me to keep my mouth shut about it.

I don't think there's anything wrong discussing Lobo coverage. The media should be scrutinized too. It's one thing to disagree with what's written or said, but I think people need to come with something stronger than emotion to back up any sort of claims of unethical behavior. (That's not pointed at any specific person, just saying).

I think the biggest problem with the media in recent years is that they're in too much of a hurry. Some media members seem to prefer being first to being correct. That's terrible. Then you have the line between commentators and reporters getting blurred. Certainly the media is responsible for part of this. But so is the public. There's a reason Fox News and MSNBC get bigger ratings than CNN (which in recent years tried to be objective). Some people have this strange desire to hear what they want to hear, not an attempt to report on what is factual or true. I don't understand that.

[RIDIC]

The quickest way to (figuratively) kick Mark Smith in the nads is stop reading his trash and bash of the Lobos. Ignore him and ignore the paper he writes for. That will do much more damage than just reading his garbage and complaining about it. Boycott the Urinal. I know some people can't help themselves and it's like driving by a horrible car crash and their curiosity gets the better of them. They try not to look at his stuff, but they do. My advice is DON'T. As far as I'm concerned Mark Smith doesn't exist. His opinions mean nothing to me. I'd rather get poked in the eye with a sharp stick than read any more of his drivel about the Lobos. I encourage the rest of you to put him in the same category and walk away.

I understand what you're saying, and it's a very valid point. But 2 things:

1. I read anything and everything that has to do with Lobo basketball. Positive, negative, neutral, I don't care, I look at it. Do I pay to look at it? Not necessarily. I would agree that there should be a boycott of the journal for many reasons. But if anybody is writing or talking about Lobo hoops, I read or listen. I just can't help it. It doesn't matter if I like or respect the person writing or speaking, it just means that I like and respect Lobo basketball.

2. I've never found that ignoring a problem will make it go away, so I don't. I attack it, which is why I post such things on this board and write in to sports speak up frequently to let them know exactly what I think about them. Anyone who get's their kicks by reading or listening to people constantly bash them and the job they do for a living, has some serious issues. Do I really care how they get their kicks? No. Sooner or later the RIDICule will take it's toll and they will fall.

Once again, I agree that the journal should be boycotted. I do not pay to read the garbage that's in it, and I would advise everyone else to NOT give them their money. But pretending that it doesn't exist doesn't seem all that productive to me.

I would much rather take the Alford approach and say something like, "GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE BEFORE I LIGHT YOUR @$$ UP!!!" LOL

But that's just me.