Dear Mr. Robert Smith

[TioLobo]

Thanks, JP, it's been a while since I took Business Law, and we only briefly touched on Defamation in that class.

Go Lobos!!!!

[JCB Lobo]

Alford never went to him after the game. I watched after the game and Alford never crossed mid court.

I don't like Jamal's dad one bit. I was hoping for more but this never ever happened. I was close by.

Alford usually comes out and greets the officials and opposing coaches. Today he walked straight to Smith and shook his hand. That is all that happened. That gesture said MOUNTAINS. Nothing else happened.

I was in Section A and everyone there saw alford throw papers at him and were wondering why.

I told my brother after the game to watch Alford and we both saw him pointing fingers at him and yelling at him.

There was never a hand shake with Mr. Smith.

So uh... Did a Fire Breathing Dragon swoop down and eat Mr. Smith next? LOL!

Seriously though, which one happened a hand shake or papers being thrown and words being exchanged?

[LaVidaLobo]

My message to Robert Smith: GFY and STFU. Dude is out to try soil Alford's name and ruin the men's basketball program in the process. People love to believe rumors, it's the human condition.

[UNM Class of 1972]

Jamal Smith's dad. He wrote a blog trashing Alford the other day. It's on here someplace but I don't feel like looking it up.

Oops, a senior moment for me so I edited this post.

[dcrowley]

I watched Alford walk down the ramp and straight over to shake to Jamaal's father's hand. I did not see any papers. Jamaal's dad took his headset off and as they shook hands, Alford said something to him and then turned to walk away. Jamaal's dad was jawing at Alford as he walked away.

[SharkTankd]

I'll defer to the legal eagles on this matter, but I would imagine that judge and jurisdiction would dictate whether you can "force the issue" or not. Judge and jurisdiction "shopping" is practiced all the time, everywhere. I would probably seek out a 2nd opinion on the matter. California may or may not be different than NM, but I've seen different approaches to similar matters out on the Coast, esp in The Industry, where "reputation" is valued to a different degree. Seems to me that discovery phase of any legal action (that is not dismissed forthwith) would require the *allegator* to either show some real teeth or-- clamp the slimy jaws? Many are the times I've seen legal motions filed if only to cause concern and expense for the alleged offensive party, whether those court actions are warranted or not. As can easily be supposed, this is not always a "good thing" -- for those who are less powerful/wealthy. IOW, can be a "paper club" used simply to intimidate some poor hapless "nobody."

In any event three things are pretty clear - to me, if not strictly legal:

1) Mr Smith is also a "public figure" who in this case, has a public audience

2) SA was, by all accounts thus far, none too happy about this

2) A "code" of normalized/ethical behavior was violated, whether codified -- here, in SoCal, in Europe, or not

Well, I now leave it alone, I have no wolf in this particular fight (... beyond the fact that I don't like to see these pitiable and petty public smears) SA/UNM are quite able to take care of themselves, and protect their own best interests, however that need be done, I have no doubt.

Somehow I don't think suing a disgruntled parent would be the right course of action for a college head coach. I think Alford understands this.

Robert Smith is a UNLV legend, and I am sorry that your only knowledge of him is related to that piece he wrote for our fanzine. He really is a quality person, and I am somewhat surprised he wrote what he did. He shouldn't let his feelings as a parent creep into his work reputation/persona, but as a parent, I can somewhat understand. It is difficult not to.

Any rate, I am sure it will add to the rivalry.

And those Lobos played a great game Saturday. Wrongs avenged. I wouldn't be surprised if we meet again in the MWC tournament.

[bfi2]

Keep in mind that THIS Mr. Smith (i'm usually b*tchin about the local "Mr. Smith"), is also a representative/employee of UNLV via his color commentary position! That opens up another realm to all of this.

[trufan]

Lobo Man you couldn't be more wrong. Happened 2 ft in front of me. Alford walked over before the game and said something to him and tossed an envelope to him. after the game he walked over and they exchanged words. Was quick. But Alford let him know what he did was not acceptable.

[Fideos]

So was there papers or not??? This is turning into a conspiracy.

[trufan]

there was absolutely no handshake. believe me. everyone at the scorers table was somewhat shocked and talking about the incident. mr smith was laughing but in a sheepish embarrased way in front of his colleagues. after the game when alford came over and said something smith was much more confrontational. but alford didnt give him the time of day. put him in his place.

[trufan]

yes there were papers. they were in an envelope. he was passing the papers to his colleages at halftime. they were "amused".

[EastMtnLobo]

Were they still amused after the game?....I bet not as much.

[allometry]

If it is was reduced to some form either written or the equivalent (say an internet blog) it is libel rather than slander. They both fall under the rubric of "defamation," and, except for some technical issues that I don't think really apply here, the same rules govern. You might rain shock and awe down upon the alleged defamer, but the odds are you would not be able to do it in court.

"Public figure" status is meaningful only with regard to the person who is allegedly defamed, not in connection with the person who made the statements. In fact, being a media defendant is advantageous to the defendant (there is a public interest in encouraging "vigorous debate"), but in this case, since Smith was following what is essentially a private matter, is not likely to help him.

While "forum shopping" can be an issue, it is chiefly of concern when either the substantive law varies with the jurisdiction or when you would expect juries in one area to be far more favorable than those in another. But the substantive law of defamation is mostly defined by the federal first amendment, and so federal, rather than state law, is dominant, and the major issue here is likely to be ruled on by a judge well before it hits a jury, so it is unlikely to confer an advantage on one side of the other. Furthermore, there is a huge difference between "jurisdiction" (Which courts have the right to her the case. and "venue" which is the most appropriate court to hear the case. Any state in which the remark was published,or in which the defendant was found, would have jurisdiction, but likely venue would lie only inNew Mexico or Nevada (or possibly Indiana). Of course, I haven't looked at this stuff in 10 years so my memory could be off or the law might have changed. But I don't think so.

Essentially, Alford, assuming he were stupid enough (subjunctive mood, implying condition contrary to fact) to get involved in a p*ss*ng match like this, would have to prove that Smith has made a material false statement of fact and that he acted with malice in doing so.

"Material" is a tricky concept, but essentially it means that the statement would have to be about something that actually matters. A comment misidentifying the particular brand of hair gel that somebody used is unlikely to be material, unless he were an official endorser of hair gel and the statement was that he used a competing brand, and the alleged defamer would have to have acted with malice (see definition earlier in this thread.)

Those interested in history might want to go back and read about the Libel trial of John Peter Zenger in the colony of New York (around 1735). Zenger was accused of criminally libeling the royal governor of NY. Despite the law at the time clearly being on the governor's side (it was more or less equivalent to what would appear to be Swedish law as of 10 years ago, as depicted in The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo), the NY jury acquitted Zenger. Also worth reading about is the history of the Alien and Sedition Acts passed during the presidency of John Adams,which was used to jail many newspaper publishers and editors (at that time usually one and the same persons).

It looked to be as much as a one or two pages folded 4 times into a small rectangle that was tossed at Smith.

If I were to take a guess at that package delivered, I would say it was the articled, printed out and signed by Alford. His words were short to Smith, something like, here you go, but delivered with some attitude.

[TheLoboMan]

Look I know what I saw and watched intently. Alford never had anything in his hand.

Trust me on this cause I have a vested interest. BIG TIME. I've never cared for Jamal or his father. This goes back to Jamal's junior year. I know Coach Alford knew about the blog too. I really wanted for something good to happen. I had been waiting on this confrontation for a couple of days.

There is now also others who saw exactly what I saw and one usher is also reporting the hand shake who just happened to be standing there. This has been verified by others on this thread alone. Maybe Coach gave the starting lineup to their official scorekeeper or something but not to Mr. Smith.

Alford walked directly to Mr. Smith and Mr. Smith took his head phones off and they shook hands. Mr. Smith was smiling and Alford just walked off.

Coach Neil reads this board daily. Maybe he can let Mark know what happened. I know if it weren't true it would be clarified by Mark.

By the way I'm not going to post on this subject again. I'm not all about he said she said.

[trufan]

not going to try to convince you of anything. happened right in front of me end of story

[Lobosteve]

Stood in the second row of the Student Section and watched Coach Alford throw papers at Mr. Smith. It happened. Don't know how it was missed by anyone who was supposedly paying close attention. They never even came close to shaking hands.

[JCB Lobo]

Alford never went to him after the game. I watched after the game and Alford never crossed mid court.

I don't like Jamal's dad one bit. I was hoping for more but this never ever happened. I was close by.

Alford usually comes out and greets the officials and opposing coaches. Today he walked straight to Smith and shook his hand. That is all that happened. That gesture said MOUNTAINS. Nothing else happened.

I was in Section A and everyone there saw alford throw papers at him and were wondering why.

I told my brother after the game to watch Alford and we both saw him pointing fingers at him and yelling at him.

There was never a hand shake with Mr. Smith.

So was there papers or not??? This is turning into a conspiracy.

An entertaining one too. My interest is really peeked here. Either story is intriguing. If he shook his hand that is cool, if he threw papers and exchanged words that is awesome as well. LOL! Either way gotta LOVE COACH ALFORD!!

[Bamalobo]

[QUOTE=judas_priest;439195]Highly unlikely. A party to a lawsuit cannot serve initial papers upon another party (to get the case started).

It's also extremely dubious that what Smith said constituted slander. Since Alford is a public figure, he would have to prove "malice" (as it is defined legally) to win. Malice means either knowledge that material facts were false or a reckless disregard for their truth or falsity. I am not sure how many facts Smith alleged (as opposed to voicing opinions - and I have no intention of dignifying that pile of merde by rereading it) and a good faith belief in the truth of such allegations is a complete defense (if the person allegedly defamed is a public figure.)

New York Times v. Sullivan, very good Mr. Priest.

[rglobo]

Look at the replay of the game. At the end Coach Alford shakes alll the players hands and ends up way on UNLV's side of the court. He stops right where the radio guys from UNLV are at. Yes you see the fans rushing the court, but you can't miss Coach Alford in his bright red jacket.

Those who are saying that they shook hands are incorrect. They never did.

I am not accusing Coach Alford of doing anything bad. He was obviously very mad at this guy and was defending himself. Anyone who do the same.

[DennisSinned]

Maybe the envelope was a Hallmark card for Jamal: "Congratulations Graduate, On Getting Your Degree."

The way I read the blog that would make everything better, right?

[LaVidaLobo]

I hope it was a xerox copy of Steve's bare butt signed Kiss My A**!