Big East split could happen soon

[damianshorns]

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/0...DkO/story.html

[JulieG]

It would look to me like the conference issues are far from over. Especially if the AQ goes away. It makes a return to some sense in what makes a conference return to the forefront.

[Mark]

Don't show BSU or SDSU fans that.

[bigolobo]

This Big East debacle is like a case study on political ineptitude. It was obvious that the Big East was pursuing an unworkable strategy but its officials were so blinded by their own ego/ambition that they pushed it anyway. Now they've simply succeeded in digging themselves into a deeper hole.

As much as I want SDSU and BSU to remain in the MWC (and for that matter BYU to return), part of me wants to see them follow through with their Big East misadventure. Its only going to get worse, and now their is no easy fix unless everyone involved admits defeat.

The Big East is the Vietnam of college sports.

[ABQJack]

The Boston Globe knows the local scene pretty thoroughly. Their long-established sources, contacts, and general apprehension of eastern area sports would, I am pretty sure, match and often exceed other, less discriminating outlets, incl ESPN. And so, this reporter partially confirms a gathering zeitgeist -- IE, the Big East FB/BB conundrum (... who gets what % of the $$$) will probably continue and eventually lead to the spit that he refers to. Don't care a serpent's lick because I don't ever watch the BE play any sport, ever, but if it keeps Boise St and SDSU in the MWC, I can live with that. Wouldn't even mind <cough, gag, spit> BYU getting invited back -- permitting their TV exceptionalism and all else -- for Olympic Sports only. I can't believe they (or, their fans) are satisfied with the WCC. If they actually are, and wish to disdain 50++ year-old mountain rivalvies, OK, never mind.

But with SDSU and BYU, imagine THAT BB Conference for a moment. FB better than it was yesterday, and BB with an excellent chance to remain ahead of the PAC-12. Having spent a lot of time out on the Coast, I am suggesting that the $$$$ problem for all California schools is dauntingly real, and is not going away any time soon. Which is why Oregon can exploit the Nike bucks and move ahead so quickly.

And so, sure, let's hope that the so-called "Catholic cartel" does indeed plot to bring this new split to fruition. Can only help us.

[bigolobo]

Jack, totally agree that California's budgetary problems could have an impact on the schools that form the core of the Pac-12, but I also think it could be overblown. The Pac-12's fat TV deal should keep its members in solid shape, plus USC will likely be back to its old form soon enough.

In terms of the Big East, the problem is that it won't be an easy divorce. Which faction gets to keep the Big East label? That will impact everything from automatic bids, aq status (or whatever permutation is next), and the rights to play in MSG for the hoops tourney. And then after that both groups will still be left looking for new members or homes. Bottom line is that it would be very very messy.

[NMStorm]

Well it's a good thing he prayed on it before quitting.

[AceAndTwo]

It better happen soon before the BE lands a tv contract. If they get a better tv contract then it is over.

[GiJoeRay]

It better happen soon before the BE lands a tv contract. If they get a better tv contract then it is over.

to keep BSU and SDSU that TV contract better be GREAT and not just better. WCC, Big West, MVC all have told BSU no thanks for their Olympic sports. If we (and the Sun Belt) can kill the WAC, BSU would have no other option but to come back. All that BE TV Money cant compensate for dropping other sports, especially when Title IX comes into play.

[bigolobo]

It better happen soon before the BE lands a tv contract. If they get a better tv contract then it is over.

This assumes several things. 1) The TV contract is in the range promised to BSU and SDSU. 2) The basketball schools are happy with their slice of the pie (30%). 3) No more schools bail on the conference. 4) That the coast-coast Big East is actually viable.

[LaVidaLobo]

What is all this talk about the Big East landing a TV contract before it folds/splits? NEVER GONNA HAPPEN! Any TV Exec trying to hammer out and negotiate a lucrative TV contract with the Big Least right now would be fired on the spot. The Big Least is in turmoil and with the amount of uncertainty surrounding that League, any TV contract it could get right now would be at a major cut rate, which would send a bunch of more dominoes falling and schools scrambling for the exits.

[LetTheFurFly]

Not only would the Big East have to hire one hell of a negotiator immediately (before september), they would have to convince the people they're dealing with that the Big East's house isn't falling apart.

And it is.

These events aren't the kind that make long term contracts appear out of thin air. These are the kinds of events that make people in the mortgage and car industry ask for a co-signer.

[indwelling3]

When the Big Apple puts on a show it is usually quite a production. The Big Least meltdown reminds me of Wall Street 2008-09. Again the sharks eat their own and nobody goes to jail. And it is the fans that suffer once again.

[RENOLOBO]

if the Big East folds, and no one else in the West wants them, they might be attractive enough for the RMAC.....I can see them playing at Highlands in hoops.....then off to Adams State....Anthony Drmic might think he was back in the Outback again!!

[ThreePointShot]

Wouldn't even mind <cough, gag, spit> BYU getting invited back -- permitting their TV exceptionalism and all else -- for Olympic Sports only.

This could never happen since the MWC bylaws require football participation to earn a place for the olympic sports.

[ABQJack]

This could never happen since the MWC bylaws require football participation to earn a place for the olympic sports.

Curious set of by-laws.

Hawaii gets to play football in our conference, but has their Olympic sports in the Big West.

Why wouldn't it work the other way around? BYU is an independent, and is not affiliated with another conference. If they left the WCC, why couldn't they play just Olympic sports in the MWC? Similar to how Hawaii only plays FB?

What? They by-laws are FB-oriented?

[JRI]

Curious set of by-laws.

Hawaii gets to play football in our conference, but has their Olympic sports in the Big West.

Why wouldn't it work the other way around? BYU is an independent, and is not affiliated with another conference. If they left the WCC, why couldn't they play just Olympic sports in the MWC? Similar to how Hawaii only plays FB?

What? They by-laws are FB-oriented?

It doesn't really work the opposite way (playing olympic sports in MWC conference with football doing their own thing or in another conference) because of money. Not sure how much BYU is making out with football as an independent but the theory is, why let someone (Boise for example), get a ton of football money from the Big East or Big 12 or whatever which is then funneled to their olympic sports creating an "unfair" advantage. That is what the MWC does not want. Smaller conferences like the WCC and WAC were willing to allow it.

[ABQJack]

It doesn't really work the opposite way (playing olympic sports in MWC conference with football doing their own thing or in another conference) because of money. Not sure how much BYU is making out with football as an independent but the theory is, why let someone (Boise for example), get a ton of football money from the Big East or Big 12 or whatever which is then funneled to their olympic sports creating an "unfair" advantage. That is what the MWC does not want. Smaller conferences like the WCC and WAC were willing to allow it.

You are right about NOT permitting Boise or SDSU to play Oly sports in our conference while they take (and keep) money from another D1 conference for their FB teams. I fully agree, no way!

But in BYU's case, they are an independent in FB, so I guess I am wondering if that wouldn't allow them (... IE, our powers-that-be, whoever they are) to say, oh, OK, in that case we will act decisively to improve our Olympic sports, esp BB, by writing in a little codicile or lawyerese of some sort of writ that would in fact allow an "independent FB player" to come on in?

As I have suggested, a BB conference (and, baseball, volleyball, many other sports) that includes BYU -- and, no matter any past shady shenanigans -- would be better insofar as national recognition, exposure, competition, RPI-wise and etc etc.

[Roob]

Water is H20, Hydrogen 2 parts, oxygen one, but there is also a third thing, that makes it water.
And nobody knows what that is. ---D.H. Lawrence

I know what it is and I am unlocking the mystery here and now. The third thing is (drum roll please): Temperature between 32 and 212 fahrenheit, give or take a few for differences in atmospheric pressure (altitude).

[JRI]

You are right about NOT permitting Boise or SDSU to play Oly sports in our conference while they take (and keep) money from another D1 conference for their FB teams. I fully agree, no way!

But in BYU's case, they are an independent in FB, so I guess I am wondering if that wouldn't allow them (... IE, our powers-that-be, whoever they are) to say, oh, OK, in that case we will act decisively to improve our Olympic sports, esp BB, by writing in a little codicile or lawyerese of some sort of writ that would in fact allow an "independent FB player" to come on in?

As I have suggested, a BB conference (and, baseball, volleyball, many other sports) that includes BYU -- and, no matter any past shady shenanigans -- would be better insofar as national recognition, exposure, competition, RPI-wise and etc etc.

Got it. I see what you are saying. You were distinguishing between independent football and football in another conference. That is a good question. In the case of Notre Dame, I would still say no because they are making TONS of money from NBC as an independent. In the case of BYU football, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how much more "football" money they are getting as an independent.

[eazy06]

On the aztec mesa there is 0 chance they comeback... And they wondor why we clown on them?

[ThreadKiller]

This assumes several things. 1) The TV contract is in the range promised to BSU and SDSU. 2) The basketball schools are happy with their slice of the pie (30%). 3) No more schools bail on the conference. 4) That the coast-coast Big East is actually viable.

That would be a big question mark. Louisville made no secrete of its desire to be in the Big 12 but got left behind in favor of West Virginia. And Uconn has also been on record stating they feel they are a better fit for the ACC, where their basketball team can still be in an elite conference but would be able to compete in Football as well.

[pjamj]

Well it's a good thing he prayed on it before quitting.

I believe it was a typo. The writer meant "preyed", and he was referencing the contract that spelled out the terms of his Golden Parachute, which included saying all those nice things.

[ABQJack]

I know what it is and I am unlocking the mystery here and now. The third thing is (drum roll please): Temperature between 32 and 212 fahrenheit, give or take a few for differences in atmospheric pressure (altitude).

If there is magic on the planet, it is contained in Water. --Loren Eisely

When the well's dry, we'll know the worth of water. --Benjamin Franklin

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Good solid, and educated anwswer roobster!

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Edit: forget it, it was a whim, nothin' but... a thimble on the thumb of a Tom cat. Like that.


Edit #2: oh and btw roob, if you chance upon this post once more... I sure like this site and you and markO! are 2 yowl-cool cats who keep things running along grand, but... "my mystery" as you have said it does not interest nobody much, nor should it. I really... REALLY... REALLY, like my privacy, and have gone to IMMENSE lengths so to insure it. For instance, my IP is NEVER necessarily me, it could be routed -- serpentinely, circuitously and by way of Arcturus and besides, I truly don't trust the Gov't to keep their creepy geeky hands off my affairs. Other than that there sorta stuff, it's all... cool shades babe!

[ThreePointShot]

Curious set of by-laws.

Hawaii gets to play football in our conference, but has their Olympic sports in the Big West.

Why wouldn't it work the other way around? BYU is an independent, and is not affiliated with another conference. If they left the WCC, why couldn't they play just Olympic sports in the MWC? Similar to how Hawaii only plays FB?

Because it's written in the MWC bylaws that way: Football participation is absolutely required if you want to have your Olympic sports in the MWC. It's not written the other way around, however. So if you want only to have football in the MWC, they can choose to allow a school not to have the other sports, like Hawaii is going to do.

Craig Thompson mentioned this in his lengthy recorded interview that was posted a few days ago. He stressed that football participation is the "price of admission" for the rest.

Consequently you won't see BYU as a football independent in the MWC. Nor would you see a non-football school, such as a Gonzaga type of school, for that very reason.

[ABQJack]

Because it's written in the MWC bylaws that way: Football participation is absolutely required if you want to have your Olympic sports in the MWC. It's not written the other way around, however. So if you want only to have football in the MWC, they can choose to allow a school not to have the other sports, like Hawaii is going to do.

Craig Thompson mentioned this in his lengthy recorded interview that was posted a few days ago. He stressed that football participation is the "price of admission" for the rest.

Consequently you won't see BYU as a football independent in the MWC. Nor would you see a non-football school, such as a Gonzaga type of school, for that very reason.

Huh.

Well, if that is what the by-laws are, no sense fumbling or fuming over it. Thanx for the more elaborate X-planation. Wish more folks would do as you and not hoard their "inside info." In lieu of saying something gah gauche, like so -- "Hey Mr 16-post guy, what do you know!" lol

Seems to me that -- IF you are going to have (... eventually, as I understand the flack emerging from various assorted and now dis-remembered places) 12 teams with 2 divisions so that you can have a conference play-off, you'd want that same scenario for BB as with FB?

Hawaii invitation is excellent as it provides market and a good recruiting tool, IE -- come here to play and you'll get to see the palm-tree'd islands once every 2 or 4 years, however that works out.

But, you'll then have 11 teams playing BB and how is the scheduling going to work out right? Doubt you'll have 20 conference games as that limits what you can do insofar as neutral site games/tourneys, not to mention the required RPI-games and the fillers for the needed high winning percentage. If you have unequal home-and-home schedule, then someone will always complain. Say, you lose the conference by one game and you have played Vegas on their court, whereas the winner didn't have to travel there that particular year, and instead got a home game with a cellar-dweller.

I yet say that MWC should re-write the by-laws so to allow another school -- that is in a NON-FB-playing conference, be invited so we might reach the 12 members, same as FB.

Heard someone mention Wichita State and that would be an excellent addition, esp for BB and baseball. If, and it's a might big if just now, our upcoming revised TV-deal is much more lucrative, then I am pretty sure we can lure some school that has long-standing BB success. If not the Witchers, then I'd once again suggest Montana. Denver U (or, is it U of Denver? Don't know) was in the top-100 RPI all of last year, IIRC. That's a huge market. Who else? Long Beach State or UC Santa-Barbara? Added attraction there is undercutting the Big West for our good and emminently gracious old pals, SDSU. Can't beat that with a stick!