OT (kind of): Gas prices

[loborick]

I just finished reading the paper this morning. Between the article about no end in sight to the increase in gas prices to another article about the large increase in natural gas prices and another article about the Weed, NM general store and gas station having to close because of high gas AND grocery prices it is really making me worry. Will I be able to afford to go to Lobo games this year? It was tought to manage last year, and prices could be 50% higher by basketball season. Then, if the cost to increase my home also increase by that much, what do I do? Do I have to choose between heating my home and going to a Lobo game?

Things are getting really bad. Gas at one station went up 30 cents overnight this weekend here. It cost me $24 to put a quarter tank of gas in my car on Friday, even before this went up. Our lives are going to be changing very much unless something is done. Groceries are getting too explensive, gasoline is getting too expensive and everything that has to be delivered by vehicles using gasoline is increasing in price dramatically. I believe this is going to affect attendance at Lobo games. There are hundreds of people, that have season tickets and drive from Santa Fe, Taos, Farmington, Espanola, Gallup, etc. Will these people have to give up their tickets so they can buy groceries?

I guess Im going to have to start putting a little money away each week (that I can hardly afford) so I can pay for my gas this season. It is scary. How far is this going to go?

[Wolfen1]

I feel your pain and it seems there is no end in sight. It is scary,,,sht I can barely afford to mow my lawn. I t now costs me as much to put gas in my mower as it used to cost to put gas in my car. Much less trying to feed 2 teens on a fixed income.

[Bloo]

I tried to tell a few people on another board that we'd be in a recession in a few years back in that last year I was over there, and that I thought we were already creeping towards it- they just laughed. One produced numbers he felt were to the contrary, and the other asked me to provide numbers to prove what I was saying.

Bottomline is that transportation affects everything. So many household items in grocery stores have had static prices for decades on slimming margins and the things that got cut to preserve those prices were things like MY JOB in my former life- sales forces for companies who supply those items are a thing of the past. There's only so much you can cut before prices have to rise, and under our current distribution system, prices cannot maintain with these types of increases at the pump. Think about any and everything that gets delivered- I'm talking directly to you in a lighter sense, but primarily I mean anything that you can go get somewhere that you want or need- now it costs 100-150% of what it did just five years ago and that number will continue to rise. Who do you think has to pay for that increase?

What's interesting is the resistance to this recession with regards to the measures being taken to meet it. It is evident to me that the lessons learned from the Depression Era are slipping away towards the grave, and even the lessons we learned in the Energy Crisis of the 70s seem like a distant memory. Where is the sense of urgency from our government to meet this crisis head on? Where are the systems for rationing our resources? Where is the rallying and organizing- where are the efforts to car pool? What is interesting to me is the number of foreclosures, at all time highs, and the methods with which individuals are dealing with their debt. When people view paying their bills with credit card advances as a solution to their money woes, we are dealing with a serious vacancy in terms of financial fortitude, folks. This is the ME generation's approach to a recession, and things are going to get worse long before they ever get better.

[badger77]

Fortunately, by conference time, there’ll be a train station near my house.

[badger77]

Quick mouse.

[Lobo_for_life]

while there is no doubt that alternative energy sources are the LONG-TERM solution, our gutless Democratic Congress needs to act now to initiate legislation to allow a dramatic increase in domestic drilling. It's been estimated that, combining this breakthrough with the natural progression of alternate-source development, there's enough crude and oil shale within our domestic reach to serve our needs until close to the end of the 21st century. While it is important to protect the environment, environmental legislation currently has us hamstrung. It has literally become a matter of national security and should be treated as such.

Related to this, I was listening to the Villaneucci show on KKOB the other day when one of the guests was Tom Udall. A listener called and got right to the heart of the matter, describing all of the domestic oil resources the U.S. has that are untapped and at the same time asking why we're not tapping into those sources. Udall didn't even have the courage to explain that environmental legislation was prohibiting us from drilling more domestically. Instead he authoritatively laid some sh** (but is actually true) on the guy about being "consumers on the world market and that is where we buy". The whole thing just made me sick.

On another front, while the oil companies do benefit from these market conditions, their 8% or so bottom-line profit is a VERY SMALL PART of what we pay at the pump. In fact, their executives are currently pleading with Congress to legislate domestic drilling opportunities. There is no question that a large increase in domestic production would make OPEC's price sink like a stone, given that we are such large consumers of oil. However, to date, Congress is so worried about the liberal vote (read, "Sierra Club") they are too spineless to do the right thing. In fact, many of these idiots don't realize the true financial picture on this and actually want to raise taxes on the oil companies. Contrast this with most other consuming nations, who are actually in the throes of reducing those same taxes. Help me with that logic!

Going forward, I realize that John McCain is not the ideal Republican candidate. However, contrast him with the liberal alternative and it is downright scary.

[Wolfen1]

Bloo,,,It was easy to predict, and I did, that we would be in this situation when a republican oil man was elected as President and to a 2nd term. 4 more years of Bush's policies and there won't be a middle class left to fill The Pit.

Anyways,,,,this is not the political debate board,,,so maybe it should be moved.

The quickest way to make enemies is to start debating politics on a sports board.

The year Bush became President the price per gallon of gas was under $1.50 a gallon

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub.../summogas.html
http://www.kansaswheat.org/upload/Food%20prices.pdf

[LoBo LoCo]

Wait a minute...Democrats have been the slight majority in congress for two years already...this problem stems far back. Look who's been the leader of our country for the last eight years. Meanwhile, the oil executives are living the life now with record profits...not to mention were involved in a war in which we were misled about our reasons for being there. All the while funding a war where some of that money could have helped our own. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for those individuals who are in the military but we shouldn't be there any longer because we have our own problems to take care of now. Funny, some individuals fail to recognize the economic era of the 90's where profits were at an all time high. Look who was President then...a Democrat. Nobody was complaining then. Now, we've alienated our country from the rest of the world and it's time to start repairing those relations and the problems within our own country.

BTW...the problem is not enough oil in the world...it's the lack of refineries and the time and cost it needs to build them.

while there is no doubt that alternative energy sources are the LONG-TERM solution, our gutless Democratic Congress needs to act now to initiate legislation to allow a dramatic increase in domestic drilling. It's been estimated that, combining this breakthrough with the natural progression of alternate-source development, there's enough crude and oil shale within our domestic reach to serve our needs until close to the end of the 21st century. While it is important to protect the environment, environmental legislation currently has us hamstrung. It has literally become a matter of national security and should be treated as such.

Related to this, I was listening to the Villaneucci show on KKOB the other day when one of the guests was Tom Udall. A listener called and got right to the heart of the matter, describing all of the domestic oil resources the U.S. has that are untapped and at the same time asking why we're not tapping into those sources. Udall didn't even have the courage to explain that environmental legislation was prohibiting us from drilling more domestically. Instead he authoritatively laid some sh** (but is actually true) on the guy about being "consumers on the world market and that is where we buy". The whole thing just made me sick.

On another front, while the oil companies do benefit from these market conditions, their 8% or so bottom-line profit is a VERY SMALL PART of what we pay at the pump. In fact, their executives are currently pleading with Congress to legislate domestic drilling opportunities. There is no question that a large increase in domestic production would make OPEC's price sink like a stone, given that we are such large consumers of oil. However, to date, Congress is so worried about the liberal vote (read, "Sierra Club") they are too spineless to do the right thing. In fact, many of these idiots don't realize the true financial picture on this and actually want to raise taxes on the oil companies. Contrast this with most other consuming nations, who are actually in the throes of reducing those same taxes. Help me with that logic!

Going forward, I realize that John McCain is not the ideal Republican candidate. However, contrast him with the liberal alternative and it is downright scary.

[Lobo_for_life]

you're saying that there is enough oil in the world, but that we can't take the time to bring new refineries online?! Isn't that a little like saying that your kids are hungry but you can't take time to go to the grocery store and then cook them a meal, or even go through the drive-through?

So, then, what are your short-range AND long-term solutions to our problems in this area?

Oh, let me guess, let's nationalize the oil companies! There's the solution to all! Hey, if we do that oil prices will drop, or better still we'll make those nasty oil companies give away their inventories. That'll fix 'em!

[Garishwolf]

BS,,no penche socialistic oil control. 60 years of oil, here in the U.S. Enough for 160 million homes 60 million cars. We have the new tech know how, set em free, let em start drilling, building refineries. Gone green a tree too far. In 60 years we WILL have several new amazing fuel sources. Sheez imagne in 6 years what's going to be out there.

[lobograd]

Even if we opened up all of our oil resources today, the majority of it would go outside of the states. It'd be sold on the market. There's no easy fix to this solution. And in my opinion, it is in the best interest of the United States not to tap our limited resources until we can almost completely drain as much of foreign assets as possible, even if the price because dramatic (up to $10/gallon). That would spell the end of our direct problems with the Arab world. The government has done a good job of subsidizing our cost at the pump via military control or special relationships with the Saudis. Which has been good at establishing the country's infrastructure over the last 100 years. But people (& government) need to realize that this resource is finite. The easy stuff is gone. The new oil fields are immensely more challenging to draw from than the past. They are far more risky to draw from. Interruptions will become more of a normal occurrence, and of course this disturbs the market and increases prices.

Change your lifestyle now before it becomes impossible for you to do when gas goes up twice what it is now. Push your local & state government to build railways so that the state can work when gas is unaffordable.

We also need new incentives for energy research. The X-prize system would be a good thing to aim for to get immediate results. Bloated government agencies are not the answer, obviously. We need to look at the situation as if we were at war! Not war like Iraq. War like World War II where we have limited rations for each citizen. Those living situations breed ingenuity. That's why the our best inventions and ideas come during great duress. You're FORCED to adapt or you die.

I still believe that oil will drop significantly in the next year or so because I see the market as a bubble. But, this will have been a good exercise from the macro-economic perspective. We have to change. And government won't do it willingly because it isn't politically palatable. But it has to be done.

[lobograd]

One more comment (I could go all day). I still see normal people (they don't look rich to me) leaving their vehicles running while they go inside to shop. That tells me that they are 1) idiots, 2) possibly rich - but probably not or 3) the price of gas is more expensive, but still affordable.

[Garishwolf]

HUMM so we would be controling the oil market,,,,,,humm may not be a bad idea, we deside our own poduction and pricing, Ilike it.

[Lobo_for_life]

Even if we opened up all of our oil resources today, the majority of it would go outside of the states. It'd be sold on the market. There's no easy fix to this solution. And in my opinion, it is in the best interest of the United States not to tap our limited resources until we can almost completely drain as much of foreign assets as possible, even if the price because dramatic (up to $10/gallon). That would spell the end of our direct problems with the Arab world. The government has done a good job of subsidizing our cost at the pump via military control or special relationships with the Saudis. Which has been good at establishing the country's infrastructure over the last 100 years. But people (& government) need to realize that this resource is finite. The easy stuff is gone. The new oil fields are immensely more challenging to draw from than the past. They are far more risky to draw from. Interruptions will become more of a normal occurrence, and of course this disturbs the market and increases prices.

Change your lifestyle now before it becomes impossible for you to do when gas goes up twice what it is now. Push your local & state government to build railways so that the state can work when gas is unaffordable.

We also need new incentives for energy research. The X-prize system would be a good thing to aim for to get immediate results. Bloated government agencies are not the answer, obviously. We need to look at the situation as if we were at war! Not war like Iraq. War like World War II where we have limited rations for each citizen. Those living situations breed ingenuity. That's why the our best inventions and ideas come during great duress. You're FORCED to adapt or you die.

I still believe that oil will drop significantly in the next year or so because I see the market as a bubble. But, this will have been a good exercise from the macro-economic perspective. We have to change. And government won't do it willingly because it isn't politically palatable. But it has to be done.

There is no question that we, as a nation, need to change our habits and that alternate sources of energy are the best long-term solution to our crisis. However, in the interim, if domestic supplies were able to be increased dramatically, the cost that you and I pay would drop significantly. As for the biggest reason -- it is basic economics, i.e., the relationship between supply, demand, and price.

It really doesn't matter whether or not most of the new supplies would leave our shores. Prices would drop significantly, and that WON'T happen if supplies don't increase. Congress needs to get a clue.

[Garishwolf]

BINGO LOBOFORLIFE,,,,,,thanks.

[Lobo_for_life]

Thanks, Garish.

[loborick]

I was thinking all day about posting on here about how this is not a partisan issue and that everyone has to get together and realize we all have to make sacrifices. And that the Republicans and Democrats have to work together. Everyone on here could go back and forth and blame the other party. But what about the jerk that passed me in a 1 ton diesel truck today tricked out with chrome rims? You know he has never hauled anything in his life. People have to understand that if we don't start living within our resources, there will be a depression to rival the 30's. If you don't think soup lines, food rationing and 25% unemployment can't happen, think again.

We will have a change in the White House next year. I pray to God the person we put there will be the one that can get us out of this. I'm not an expert (not like so many of you on this board), I can only hope that this does not get too bad. But it will get much worse before it gets better. I haven't turned on the AC in my car and don't plan to. I was riding my bike to work until my accident or else I would still be. All lights in my house except the one in the room I am in are off. There are lots of little things we can all do to conserve energy. We need to be conscious of this and also tell our families. We all have to contribute. Roll down your windows, grease up your bike, put on your walking shoes. Let's stop blaming everyone else and start taking some responsibility.

[Mark]

Good post Rick. Just filled up about a hour ago and it was 98 bucks! 4.05, are you kidding me?

[lobograd]

Yep Rick, I'm with you on this issue. I grew up in a military family, and I have to say that many of the principles that I live by today I got from that mindset. Blatant waste is stylish. Laziness is the goal. These are the things that are pumped into our brains. So how do you get a populace that thinks it is entitled to anything and everything - for free - and make it realize that there are limits and the future has to be much different and that means that lavish lifestyles don't fit in. I don't blame politicians (okay I do), but their hands are tied behind their backs because if they start to chip away at our "freedoms" then they will be on their asses out of a job. So it'll take a strong President and it'll take a sympathetic media too. If a Spartan lifestyle was cool then the world would be a better place.

Another thought - if the average American understood what it took to produce a single stupid household item, I think he/she would have much more appreciation for what they have and why they don't need as much. I'm not willing to fight a war because my fellow citizens want to be lazy ("I'm fighting for our way of life"). But that may be what it comes down to. Because there sure as hell isn't enough of any resource to last very long with 1 billion Chinese and 1 billion Indians wanting to emulate our lifestyles. It just won't work.

[loborick]

Yep Rick, I'm with you on this issue. I grew up in a military family, and I have to say that many of the principles that I live by today I got from that mindset. Blatant waste is stylish. Laziness is the goal. These are the things that are pumped into our brains. So how do you get a populace that thinks it is entitled to anything and everything - for free - and make it realize that there are limits and the future has to be much different and that means that lavish lifestyles don't fit in. I don't blame politicians (okay I do), but their hands are tied behind their backs because if they start to chip away at our "freedoms" then they will be on their asses out of a job. So it'll take a strong President and it'll take a sympathetic media too. If a Spartan lifestyle was cool then the world would be a better place.

Another thought - if the average American understood what it took to produce a single stupid household item, I think he/she would have much more appreciation for what they have and why they don't need as much. I'm not willing to fight a war because my fellow citizens want to be lazy ("I'm fighting for our way of life"). But that may be what it comes down to. Because there sure as hell isn't enough of any resource to last very long with 1 billion Chinese and 1 billion Indians wanting to emulate our lifestyles. It just won't work.

Santa Fe went through some major water rationing years ago because of this drought (this has been going on for more than 10 years). I have gotten used to taking 3 minute shouers, not flushing the toilet every time I use it (if it's yellow, let it mellow, if it's brown, flush it down!) and we used to capture the extra water from showers to water with. It can be done. It takes a switch in thinking. We are so used to everything being easy and convenient. Think how much harder it will be when they ration gas and electricity!

[Wolfen1]

Those days may well be on their way. I just can't get ovet the FACT that the Bush's are oilmen. We need some strong proponents of renewable energy,,,when the US can land a labratory on Mars and run it entirely on solar power, you know the technology is within reach. I bet if the money that is being spent on the Iraq war were to have been spent on alternative energy development we would already be there. It is not a "party" issue,,,it's a survival issue. The problem with our government, on Both sides of the aisle are lobbyists and special interests. They all sell us out for their own pockets. Profit is always good, but when it takes food out of peoples mouths, it's time for a Change. The "status quo" cannot be continued. Free Trade is anything but. This is serious. I thought the elections in 1999 were critical and I was right,,,this election is beyond critical. The real enemy is taking food out of your kids mouths,,,the nuts can be dealt with. 50,000 people lost their jobs in just the past month alone. This is crises mode, time to go in a new direction.

[ldlbfn]

Some interesting posts on this. What I would like to know is what is REALLY going on behind the scenes with the money power people. The way the primaries were. Some secret meetings where who know what was REALLY said and agreed on. I know I have for the most part an unpopular view. I've said before on some boards and posts I see the things physically going on but wonder how much is spiritual. God is getting kicked out of the country more-doesn't seem to matter what party is in "control". Bowing to the almighty barrel of oil has the US wanting Israel to bend more and keep giving away more land. Some interesting "coincidences" out here that have happened with timing of some events. IMO corrution in politics on both sides. Said on one board things make it difficult for me who to vote for-I'm thinkin I'll probably do more write ins again this year. Repubs had a chance to prove to the "evangelicals" (who reports say had a big impact on last elections) they would do things the moral way, and failed in many ways. A lot of Dems still vote and favor some things the Bible say are abominations and will bring judgement on countries. Could we possibly be going through some of that now?? If I can get a list of things together(in the process of moving right now) to show some stats and events, could be interesting to some. Once I get the move done I will work on that.

[Garishwolf]

not 1 new refinery built in the U.S. in 36 years? 6 trillion barroolls of oil under us, no new high tech wells drilled in 12 years?