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Thread: Logwoods value

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    Lobo Dog Jgabaldon427's Avatar
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    Logwoods value

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    I just thing the dynamic of this whole season revolves around Sam Logwood. It was no surprise to me that the team did very well when he wasn't playing. I just think he is playing out of position. It just seems like when he's on the floor and he gets the ball it sticks and stagnates the offense. Don't get me wrong I believe there is value in Sam, but not when he puts the ball on the floor. I believe his role should be like a Dennis Rodman type of role. If coach can get Sam to buy into that I think it would do wonders for this team. He needs to battle for us on the glass, pick up all the "junk", do all the dirty work in the trenches, set devastating picks, dive for loose balls. Every team needs somebody like that and the great teams seem to always have a player like that.

    When Sam became a Lobo he was a much different player. He was an athletic dynamo that was full of potential. I just think somewhere he lost that dynamic ability and he never quite adjusted. My best guess is that the weight training affected his touch and he never quite recovered or adapted. Like I said earlier, there is plenty of value in Sam the remainder of his senior season if he and coach can adapt his role from a 2-3 skill set to more of a 4. He is still very athletic but his finesse skills of a shooting guard or ball handler are gone. Could you imagine the impact he would have if he could adapt his abilities to a Dennis Rodman type of player? Personally I think that would be a nightmare for the rest of the MW and a lot of fun for Lobos!

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you FoKuZ's Avatar
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    Sam is all of that... Whats the point of this post?

    To bash Sam?

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    Lobo Lair Legend bmccrack's Avatar
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    I guess it's fun for a fan to feel like they see the things that the coaching staff doesn't.

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    Alpha Wolf boingee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoKuZ View Post
    Sam is all of that... Whats the point of this post?

    To bash Sam?
    Bashing? Just seemed like the guy wanted to offer his opinion on a player that is affecting our dynamics out there. A possible pivotal attribute that could get us back on track.
    -Sent from my Nintendo Game & Watch

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    To be fair to the poster, he makes a point that hasn't been explored much. Why has Sam's improvement been basically non-existent? You look at his freshman year and it was his most efficient season statistically. Contra Joe who has done the normal Frosh to Senior development.

    We would want to blame Neal but Joe improved even under Neal. Sam came with such potential. Is it just playing "out of position" whatever that is? Does he only have the coordination level of the average poster who will never have D1 handles and a D1 touch?

    The OP suggested his weight training might play a part. Others have bulked up (Cam) and improved their touch. But maybe somewhere along the line, Sam changed his game and bought into the physicality aspect.

    This is unknowable and the past cannot be recreated. But there was more in the post than just bashing Sam.
    Last edited by SoCalLobo; 1 Week Ago at 09:17 AM.
    "Believe or Leave"

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    Don't think Sam was every "happy" under Neal's coaching and as a result didn't develop as he should. I think he is still trying to adjust to
    Coach W's approach. Seems like a great kid and I only wish his senior season could have played out better for him. However, there is still time. Let's not forget Sam was one of the few who decided to stay the course and continue to be a Lobo. I for one appreciate him for that and wish him nothing but the best for the remainder of the year and for his future.

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    It seems the mistakes of missed shots Sam has count about three times more than the mistakes and missed shot other players have.

    My opinion is that Sam is a good athlete and works very hard. He does have emotional and psychological issues that get in his way at times, in my opinion.

    We need him on the team for energy minutes. And some of those bunnies will start falling - it's just the law of averages.

    One of my favorite books is "Golf is Not a Game of Perfect." - And neither is basketball.

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    "I believe his role should be like a Dennis Rodman type of role. If coach can get Sam to buy into that I think it would do wonders for this team. He needs to battle for us on the glass, pick up all the "junk", do all the dirty work in the trenches, set devastating picks, dive for loose balls. Every team needs somebody like that and the great teams seem to always have a player like that."

    Me thinks it might be with 6-7 games left in his senior season a bit late for this to happen.

    I have watched Sam very closely for 4 years now....(I guess we all have). Sam is one of the best players ever when playing against lower competition. And for some reason he really struggles against similar or better competition. He is all conference against the Eastern New Mexicos of the world. I do think his skill set is inferior to others of similar size which would explain the difference. He has never really been able to finish strong around the basket (like Maluch can do) and he doesn't have the greatest outside shot so he is a man in the middle. If we had a position where you work the corners of the lane he would be ideal. Unfortunately because of our lack of size he is asked to attack the basket and that just isnt really his strongest suit.

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    In my opinion when Sam is playing defense on the exterior he is a real asset. He is tall and moves quite well. Definitely the kind of player who does help when playing large guards and small forwards. We all, and I am sure Sam is as well, are disappointed often when he gets into situations where he is stymied and does not pass the ball out. He has improved at getting out of those, but still gets into them. I would hate to not have Weir use players who have specific talents to move the team forward.
    JulieG
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    Alpha Lobo UNMLoboFan1's Avatar
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    I agree that Sam has shown the ability to play very good perimeter defense. That is going to be big as he has the length to guard a Chandler Hutch or a Justin James. IMO, the thing he needs to focus on doing is just making quick decisions on offense. When he gets the ball, make a quick pass or a quick drive. When Sam catches the ball and holds it for a second, it allows the other team's defense to rotate over and that is when Sam drives right into the double teams. IF he just catches and goes he will have much greater success

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    Just ask me. I know all the answers. I have never lost a single game as a coach. And I have won every game from my recliner.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNM Class of 1972's Avatar
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    I am not bashing Sam but maybe we had unrealistic expectations. Sometimes players are just not as good as billed. A lot come to mind besides Sam. I think Cullen Neal now realizes that too. UNM once had a 7-0 player named Mark Snow who transferred from Kansas. He had broken most of Bill Walton's records at the same school Bill attended in San Diego. He was a top 25 recruit out of Kansas but never lived up to expectations at either school. Sam is a good player but certainly we should not have expected him to be the star of this team but rather a role player much like Cullen is now at St, Mary's. It is all about finding the right chemistry and Sam has not found all of the right ingredients yet. Maybe he will in the next 5 games.

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    Pack Leader. loboball30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jgabaldon427 View Post
    I just thing the dynamic of this whole season revolves around Sam Logwood. It was no surprise to me that the team did very well when he wasn't playing. I just think he is playing out of position. It just seems like when he's on the floor and he gets the ball it sticks and stagnates the offense. Don't get me wrong I believe there is value in Sam, but not when he puts the ball on the floor. I believe his role should be like a Dennis Rodman type of role. If coach can get Sam to buy into that I think it would do wonders for this team. He needs to battle for us on the glass, pick up all the "junk", do all the dirty work in the trenches, set devastating picks, dive for loose balls. Every team needs somebody like that and the great teams seem to always have a player like that.

    When Sam became a Lobo he was a much different player. He was an athletic dynamo that was full of potential. I just think somewhere he lost that dynamic ability and he never quite adjusted. My best guess is that the weight training affected his touch and he never quite recovered or adapted. Like I said earlier, there is plenty of value in Sam the remainder of his senior season if he and coach can adapt his role from a 2-3 skill set to more of a 4. He is still very athletic but his finesse skills of a shooting guard or ball handler are gone. Could you imagine the impact he would have if he could adapt his abilities to a Dennis Rodman type of player? Personally I think that would be a nightmare for the rest of the MW and a lot of fun for Lobos!
    I agree with much of what you are saying (and wish Sam played more like Simmons -- hard nose defense and alley opps), but offense is NOT this team's problem. It's defense. When we play even a modicum of defense, we have shown that we are without question a top 3 team in this conference, and when we don't, we are one of the worst teams in the league.

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    Alpha Wolf wolfman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM Class of 1972 View Post
    I am not bashing Sam but maybe we had unrealistic expectations. Sometimes players are just not as good as billed. A lot come to mind besides Sam. I think Cullen Neal now realizes that too. UNM once had a 7-0 player named Mark Snow who transferred from Kansas. He had broken most of Bill Walton's records at the same school Bill attended in San Diego. He was a top 25 recruit out of Kansas but never lived up to expectations at either school. Sam is a good player but certainly we should not have expected him to be the star of this team but rather a role player much like Cullen is now at St, Mary's. It is all about finding the right chemistry and Sam has not found all of the right ingredients yet. Maybe he will in the next 5 games.

    Im glad you brought up Mark Snow. The one, and probably most important fact is he, like Sam, are LOBOS, and will forever be LOBOS. They are ours, they are us.

    I'll be honest. If I had a dime for every LOBO over the years that made me cringe whenever the ball was in thier hands I'd be a very rich man. Same applies at the free-throw line, or defensively. Some may remember Paul Kruse. One of first LOBO'S first true big men. I hoped and prayed whenever the ball was rarely ever tossed in to him, he'd actually do something with it. He was slow, limited athletically with not a lot of talent. But I cheered him on in the hopes he would contribute, and he did although perhaps not up to my then expectations. I was much younger then, even less so-called "knowledgeable" in LOBO Basketball so surely a guy that big would totally dominate everyone else. Didn't happen. But he still remains a favorite LOBO of mine.

    Demetrius Walker also made me cringe whenever he had the ball. He certainly didn't live up to the hype coming in, but he like Paul, contributed. Just like Sam. I love Cullen to but damn he drove me crazy in transition.

    Im sure we can all recall a LOBO or two or ten over the years reminiscent of a Sam Logwood. Sam's not the first by any stretch but I'm convinced his desire and heart as a LOBO are no less than Paul Kruse's, D. Walker's or Cullen's nor for that matter Coop's...or Kenny or Royce's ...or Danny Grainger's or Tony Snell's.

    Sam will continue to contribute before his story as a LOBO is completed. I'm happy for Sam deciding to complete his degree as a LOBO and find it within himself to give his heart and soul for four years to this team. EB left us for greener pastures in Oregon. So much for loyalty. But, I'm happy he was a LOBO.

    Based on past experience, I'll undoubtedly cringe with a future LOBO with the ball in his hands; or at the free-throw line but I've learned it pretty much comes with the territory of being a LOBO, and a fan in general.

    Thanks Big Sam. Make the most of your final games. Forever LOBOS.




    GO LOBOS




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    Pack Leader. Riches6's Avatar
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    I agree with the original post and I do not think he was trying to bash Sam. I like Sam but I have thought the same thing all year. Sam's best attributes are rebounding and defense. When he focuses on those two things he helps his team. When he tries to be a "go to" guy down low on offense he generally hurts his team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riches6 View Post
    When he tries to be a "go to" guy down low on offense he generally hurts his team.
    Is this his decision or part of the game plan?
    My position as a moderator adds no validity to my opinions. I am a fan just like you and as such when I express a view it represents me and me alone and carries no more weight than any other fan other than the fact that I am always right. (Like everyone else.)

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    Lobo Dog Jgabaldon427's Avatar
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    For the record, I was not "Sam bashing" as some of you all accused me of. I've always been one to stick up for all the players and coaches like Cullen and Coach Neal and even Frannie. I to like Sam, I respect him for staying true to the cherry and silver. Once a Lobo always a lobo! I agree, he does the things I pointed out on the op, as well as play good D but I believe that should be his job, his focus. That is what his team needs from him. "D" Glass, junk, dirty work, energy and effort.
    Just my opinion on how I think we can be a better team.
    Coach bashing??? Ridiculous!!! I love what coach Weir is building, an exciting brand of Lobos basketball, and how it's all coming together. I just know as a coach myself, it's always a balancing act.

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    Sam had a solid game last night and I love when he throws down those dunks with authority!

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    YES! He can dunk with some authority. Glad to see him have a solid game.
    Quote Originally Posted by a1lobo View Post
    Sam had a solid game last night and I love when he throws down those dunks with authority!

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  42. #20
    Little Lobo LoboDawg's Avatar
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    It all seems to be taking shape just in time. First game as a full unit in a long time... Sam helped close out the game for sure!

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    I think in Sam's defense, between injury and the time off has effected his chemistry with the team. But last night, looks like it's going to start coming together just in time.

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    Sam's play late in the game where he chased down Koby and stole the ball reminded me so much of Jordan Caroline doing the same thing in the UNR meltdown last year when Lobos were still up 13. Sam did not jog up the court after defending the inbounds pass, but busted his hump to catch up from behind and was rewarded with a steal and I believe a slam. That was so cool to see--energy, grit, sticktoitivness, hard work. Lobos were up 8 or 9 at the time. If they come down and hit three, then it's nail biting time again. That play pretty much sealed the deal. Good for Sam. Hard work and effort paying off for him and the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jgabaldon427 View Post
    I just thing the dynamic of this whole season revolves around Sam Logwood. It was no surprise to me that the team did very well when he wasn't playing. I just think he is playing out of position. It just seems like when he's on the floor and he gets the ball it sticks and stagnates the offense. Don't get me wrong I believe there is value in Sam, but not when he puts the ball on the floor. I believe his role should be like a Dennis Rodman type of role. If coach can get Sam to buy into that I think it would do wonders for this team. He needs to battle for us on the glass, pick up all the "junk", do all the dirty work in the trenches, set devastating picks, dive for loose balls. Every team needs somebody like that and the great teams seem to always have a player like that.

    When Sam became a Lobo he was a much different player. He was an athletic dynamo that was full of potential. I just think somewhere he lost that dynamic ability and he never quite adjusted. My best guess is that the weight training affected his touch and he never quite recovered or adapted. Like I said earlier, there is plenty of value in Sam the remainder of his senior season if he and coach can adapt his role from a 2-3 skill set to more of a 4. He is still very athletic but his finesse skills of a shooting guard or ball handler are gone. Could you imagine the impact he would have if he could adapt his abilities to a Dennis Rodman type of player? Personally I think that would be a nightmare for the rest of the MW and a lot of fun for Lobos!
    Let's discuss VALUE

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  50. #24
    Lobo Dog Atapia66's Avatar
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    I think the coach has given true value to Logwood as well as Troy!!! Disciplined and moved on both players who spent time suspended from the team came through huge last night!!! This team has grown in leaps and still have a ways to go!!! They are truly fun to watch!! I was disappointed when I went to the Utah St. Game and the crowd was so small, I am hoping that these fams will come out in full force for sundays game!!! Go Lobos

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    Lobo Lair Legend bmccrack's Avatar
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    I heard PW on the radio and he had an interesting comment about Logwood and Simons. He said something to the effect of we couldn't have won the games they were sitting out with them and we couldn't have won the last couple without them. How's that for a value statement?

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  54. #26
    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Doublealum's Avatar
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    interesting that with all the Logwood detractors on this site, not much about the not so great play of Ant - in an earlier post i mentioned that the ball also sticks sometimes when Ant dribbles way too much but many here came to his defense and defending their criticism of Sam with excuses/reasons based on Ant being the PG - I agree as PG, he should have the ball in his hands a lot more than a forward but when he does that long term dribble, dribble, dribble (looking for an opening or his shot) the ball sticks similarly to when Sam holds it too long and in both instances, it leads to our other guys just standing around. I think if fans are going to be so critical of these young men, they should strive to be "equal opportunity haters" - just my $.02.

    PS - Sam played one hell of a game last night and with Joe in foul trouble was the difference, imo.
    PSS - I just listened to Weir on the post game and he too mentioned Ant's letting the ball stick with him too much and how that impacts the way our other guys play.
    Last edited by Doublealum; 23 Hours Ago at 03:26 PM.

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  56. #27
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    I think that was Sam's best offensive game since he's been a Lobo. Played in control and didn't force anything. He let the game come to him.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you VWolf's Avatar
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    Key for Logwood last night was that he wasn't hesitant. When he got the ball in the post he put it up right away. I think Weir's coaching is breaking through. When he would have pump faked and head faked until he was surrounded with defenders, he instead got the ball up above the rim. He really looked energized on both sides of the floor. I loved seeing his excitement after the lightning quick 9-0 run (with Simons scoring 7 of those points).

    With Logwood dialed in like this the Lobos will be a very tough out in the MW tourney. You just know that nobody wants us on their side of the bracket.

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  60. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWolf View Post
    Key for Logwood last night was that he wasn't hesitant. When he got the ball in the post he put it up right away. I think Weir's coaching is breaking through. When he would have pump faked and head faked until he was surrounded with defenders, he instead got the ball up above the rim. He really looked energized on both sides of the floor. I loved seeing his excitement after the lightning quick 9-0 run (with Simons scoring 7 of those points).

    With Logwood dialed in like this the Lobos will be a very tough out in the MW tourney. You just know that nobody wants us on their side of the bracket.




    And the result of being surrounded by defenders, frustration. Sam's body language was apparent. The past two games, most notably vs. Wyoming Big Sam's frustration has been almost non existent, even after fouling. I think Coach has reminded Big Sam not to be so hard on himself. If anything, it seems to have channeled that would be frustration into very effective pressure defense.

    Sam's playing with confidence having adjusted to his role in Weir's system, and as long as everyone involved contributes similarly, indeed the LOBOS could become a darkhorse in the tourney.





    GO LOBOS




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    Quote Originally Posted by VWolf View Post
    Key for Logwood last night was that he wasn't hesitant. When he got the ball in the post he put it up right away. I think Weir's coaching is breaking through. When he would have pump faked and head faked until he was surrounded with defenders, he instead got the ball up above the rim. He really looked energized on both sides of the floor. I loved seeing his excitement after the lightning quick 9-0 run (with Simons scoring 7 of those points).

    With Logwood dialed in like this the Lobos will be a very tough out in the MW tourney. You just know that nobody wants us on their side of the bracket.

    ...And it really helped that the first couple of shots went in. When he swishes a mid-range jumper it's usually a really good sign. If he'd missed his first couple of shots, aggressive or not, things might have moved the other way. Great confidence-building game. It's also true that he's got a different way about him the last few games. It's the end of his college career and it seems like he's playing to that. Awesome.

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