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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNMerciful_1's Avatar
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    Coaching changes

    First Post Banner
    So far there are openings at UConn, Georgia, and Fresno St. Undoubtedly there will be a few more. As for MWC coaches, I would rank them in the following order in terms of the likelihood of the, being poached:

    1.Musselman
    2.Rice
    3.Dutcher
    4.Weir

    I believe Weir is safe unless there are a massive amount of firings. Dutcher is probably safe as well unless SDSU makes the sweet 16. I would be surprised if Muss and Rice were both back next season. With MWC expansion on the table now might be the time to bolt for a higher paying job before the conference gets harder to win.

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    Lobo Lair King JTX's Avatar
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    I think Rice leaves this year. Gonna be a drop off in talent next year.

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    Donor LoboMike's Avatar
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    Be interesting to see who CSU and Fresno hire. We need those middle of the pack type teams in the league to be decent.

    I'm not worried about Weir going anywhere right now. In a year, I may be very worried.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you txlobo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoboMike View Post
    I'm not worried about Weir going anywhere right now. In a year, I may be very worried.
    I really hope that we found our "long term" coach. His son was born in NM, his wife is from here. As long as UNM steps up to the plate and gets his pay competitive so he doesn't have any reason to seek elsewhere, then we can build this thing right here. He's lived here 10/11 years now. We need to keep him here another 10 years.

    I know about the Neal pay-out and it does tie UNM's hand, but I wish there was a way to bump his salary more than the 50k amount this year. Maybe jump it up to 800k for next season? Then, if we can get to the NCAA's next year, we can bump it again, since Neal's pay-out will be falling off the table? It will also depend on whether we can get the attendance back up to over 12-14k per game on average. If so, that would provide the necessary funds to secure a more lucrative incentive based long term contract.

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    Weir is not going anywhere anytime soon. He knows he has a good thing here with more fan support than anyone around us.The cash will come his way here and he knows it.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you RIDIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    I really hope that we found our "long term" coach. His son was born in NM, his wife is from here. As long as UNM steps up to the plate and gets his pay competitive so he doesn't have any reason to seek elsewhere, then we can build this thing right here. He's lived here 10/11 years now. We need to keep him here another 10 years.

    I know about the Neal pay-out and it does tie UNM's hand, but I wish there was a way to bump his salary more than the 50k amount this year. Maybe jump it up to 800k for next season? Then, if we can get to the NCAA's next year, we can bump it again, since Neal's pay-out will be falling off the table? It will also depend on whether we can get the attendance back up to over 12-14k per game on average. If so, that would provide the necessary funds to secure a more lucrative incentive based long term contract.
    $800k is a HUGE jump at this point, and the school can't afford it. Weir isn't going to be getting any huge offers right at this moment, and I'm sure he's patient and intelligent enough to understand how future success can affect his salary.

    Be patient. If he builds what we all think he is going to build, he will earn a very competitive salary at UNM. However, the last thing the school wants to do is put itself in a situation similar to what we had with Neal, and it's already been shown that a successful coach who sells out The Pit can make around $2 mil here (I believe that final Alford contract was for $1.8).
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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you rick7g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDIC View Post
    $800k is a HUGE jump at this point, and the school can't afford it. Weir isn't going to be getting any huge offers right at this moment, and I'm sure he's patient and intelligent enough to understand how future success can affect his salary.

    Be patient. If he builds what we all think he is going to build, he will earn a very competitive salary at UNM. However, the last thing the school wants to do is put itself in a situation similar to what we had with Neal, and it's already been shown that a successful coach who sells out The Pit can make around $2 mil here (I believe that final Alford contract was for $1.8).
    He makes $675k next year so 800k is not a "HUGE JUMP" but I think we are okay for next year and he should be told that there will be a HUGE JUMP for him in 2 years - should get a million at that point and more if necessary to keep him.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you rick7g's Avatar
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    Another reason keeping Weir here is that his new style of play is not going to work as well at lower altitude.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you UNMerciful_1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick7g View Post
    Another reason keeping Weir here is that his new style of play is not going to work as well at lower altitude.
    It would work although not as well. I'm counting on that fact to influence coach Weir to remain here long term.

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    Donor LoboMike's Avatar
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    Duryea out at Utah State also. Lots of MW jobs opening up suddenly.

    http://www.cachevalleydaily.com/spor...ae804f0a9.html

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you Digital Lobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick7g View Post
    Another reason keeping Weir here is that his new style of play is not going to work as well at lower altitude.
    The altitude doesn't matter because the game is played indoors. - Billy Tubbs



    A mile high and louder than howl


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    Wise Wolf boffo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Lobo View Post
    The altitude doesn't matter because the game is played indoors. - Billy Tubbs
    LOL

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    Wise Wolf boffo1's Avatar
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    So what happened with the Fresno Coach? I thought he was doing a decent job for Fresno.

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    Little Lobo Enkil11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boffo1 View Post
    So what happened with the Fresno Coach? I thought he was doing a decent job for Fresno.
    Left for UTEP.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you txlobo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDIC View Post
    $800k is a HUGE jump at this point, and the school can't afford it. Weir isn't going to be getting any huge offers right at this moment
    Quote Originally Posted by rick7g View Post
    He makes $675k next year so 800k is not a "HUGE JUMP" but I think we are okay for next year and he should be told that there will be a HUGE JUMP for him in 2 years - should get a million at that point and more if necessary to keep him.
    A question for each of you. "IF" UNM had made the NCAA tourney this year, what type of pay increase would we have had to pay Weir this year???

    Neal was making 750k when hired, then got a 200k bump when he took Alford's team to the NCAA's and then flopped.

    IMO, it's quite clear after almost 1 full year, that coach Weir has all the values in the program that work here and be highly successful. Maybe, similar to what Alford did, but it sure seems that coach Weir really has a much deeper connection with the players that maybe Alford didn't have, nor any other coach that I can remember.

    With all that said above, IMO, "IF" UNM has the money (125k), they should redo the original contract, where maybe it's a longer term, with a higher buy-out in case Weir was gobbled up by a P5 that showers him with cash. IMO, you have to get ahead of the curve and do it now. Otherwise, if Weir is highly successful next year, which we all expect, and a major program comes calling with a 3 million annual salary, we need to get paid ourselves if we lose our coach, unlike when Alford bolted, we got screwed.

    IMO, we've now experienced 1 full season with coach Weir and I already feel better about where this program is and where it's headed more than ANY year under Neal. Even Neal's 1st year, I thought he choked away a regular season title with a loaded squad and that was a very telling sign. This year, we take a rag tag, thrown together at the last minute group and Weir takes them to a #3 finish, amazing.

    I guess we'll see if the UNM admin and new AD Nunez is a forward thinking group or a wait and get left behind type group.

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    When did this happen? I guess going back to his Texas roots.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you RIDIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    A question for each of you. "IF" UNM had made the NCAA tourney this year, what type of pay increase would we have had to pay Weir this year???

    Neal was making 750k when hired, then got a 200k bump when he took Alford's team to the NCAA's and then flopped.

    IMO, it's quite clear after almost 1 full year, that coach Weir has all the values in the program that work here and be highly successful. Maybe, similar to what Alford did, but it sure seems that coach Weir really has a much deeper connection with the players that maybe Alford didn't have, nor any other coach that I can remember.

    With all that said above, IMO, "IF" UNM has the money (125k), they should redo the original contract, where maybe it's a longer term, with a higher buy-out in case Weir was gobbled up by a P5 that showers him with cash. IMO, you have to get ahead of the curve and do it now. Otherwise, if Weir is highly successful next year, which we all expect, and a major program comes calling with a 3 million annual salary, we need to get paid ourselves if we lose our coach, unlike when Alford bolted, we got screwed.

    IMO, we've now experienced 1 full season with coach Weir and I already feel better about where this program is and where it's headed more than ANY year under Neal. Even Neal's 1st year, I thought he choked away a regular season title with a loaded squad and that was a very telling sign. This year, we take a rag tag, thrown together at the last minute group and Weir takes them to a #3 finish, amazing.

    I guess we'll see if the UNM admin and new AD Nunez is a forward thinking group or a wait and get left behind type group.
    I think if he meets expectations next year and attendance continues to improve, you redo his contract completely and offer him a much bigger pay increase than you could offer right now based upon growing revenue generation. I think a big increase right now would be jumping the shark a bit, and from everything I've heard, Weir isn't pushing the issue himself at all right now.
    FEAR NOTHING!!!!!!!

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you txlobo95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIDIC View Post
    I think if he meets expectations next year and attendance continues to improve, you redo his contract completely and offer him a much bigger pay increase than you could offer right now based upon growing revenue generation. I think a big increase right now would be jumping the shark a bit, and from everything I've heard, Weir isn't pushing the issue himself at all right now.
    You might be right. Weir is not pushing the issue, because he has a high character. Think about it this way. How well could Weir have done if he inherited the team that Neal inherited when he became HC??? 30+ win season? Both MWC regular season crown and MWCT title? S16? I think all those would have been possible based on what we have seen in year 1 this year.

    Now look at the starting point Weir started with last spring. The most used term used in this forum was "dumpster fire". So, Weir took a "dumpster fire" situation and turned that into a #3 conf finish and within 7 minutes of an NCAA tourney appearance.

    Weir accomplished way more in year 1 than Neal, yet Neal got the 200k raise and huge buy-out. (obviously, a major mistake, and I was one that did NOT want to give him an extension at the time. I wanted to see what he would do without Alford's players)

    IMO, if you have a "star" employee, you don't wait for another employer to come in snatch him away. You have to be proactive and build goodwill, that hopefully, will be taken into account if a hard decision has to be made down the road. Maybe, we stand a better chance of keeping him long term if we build goodwill now?

    IMO, we should redo his contract and bump his pay up to 800k this year. If next year then goes as expected and we get back to the NCAA's and the Neal money comes off the books, then we should bump him to 1 mm+ range. Attendance clearly needs to return in order to make it happen, so we'll have to see if the fans can vote yes with their pocket books.

    IMO, he's as good or a better coach than Alford and maybe some of those results we saw during the Alford era will return, Top 25 road wins, Conf championships, MWCT titles, and one thing Alford could not do, deep NCAA runs. IMO, all those are possible here with Weir. And Weir also knows, here at UNM, he can get a #3 NCAA seed like Alford and Bliss both did. He doesn't have to go to UCLA to make that happen.

    NCAA seeds for UNM: (only one double digit seed in last 9 appearances, Ritchie's one year)

    1996 - 7
    1997 - 3
    1998 - 4
    1999 - 9
    2005 - 12
    2010 - 3
    2012 - 5
    2013 - 3
    2014 - 7
    Last edited by txlobo95; 03-11-2018 at 08:20 PM.

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    Its Mr Lobo Lair to you RIDIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    You might be right. Weir is not pushing the issue, because he has a high character. Think about it this way. How well could Weir have done if he inherited the team that Neal inherited when he became HC??? 30+ win season? Both MWC regular season crown and MWCT title? S16? I think all those would have been possible based on what we have seen in year 1 this year.

    Now look at the starting point Weir started with last spring. The most used term used in this forum was "dumpster fire". So, Weir took a "dumpster fire" situation and turned that into a #3 conf finish and within 7 minutes of an NCAA tourney appearance.

    Weir accomplished way more in year 1 than Neal, yet Neal got the 200k raise and huge buy-out. (obviously, a major mistake, and I was one that did NOT want to give him an extension at the time. I wanted to see what he would do without Alford's players)

    IMO, if you have a "star" employee, you don't wait for another employer to come in snatch him away. You have to be proactive and build goodwill, that hopefully, will be taken into account if a hard decision has to be made down the road. Maybe, we stand a better chance of keeping him long term if we build goodwill now?

    IMO, we should redo his contract and bump his pay up to 800k this year. If next year then goes as expected and we get back to the NCAA's and the Neal money comes off the books, then we should bump him to 1 mm+ range. Attendance clearly needs to return in order to make it happen, so we'll have to see if the fans can vote yes with their pocket books.
    I think the Neal buyout is a huge issue right now, and that's why Weir's contract was backloaded to begin with. Remove Neal's buyout from the equation and factor in better attendance numbers and you have a lot more money to work with.

    Who knows, maybe Neal will get another job now that Cullen is done playing after the NIT. Maybe USU, FSU, or CSU will come calling. lol
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    Nothing 100% done with Terry getting UTEP job right now. All signs point to that likely happening, but nothing has happened yet (unless someone can find a link that i have yet to find...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    You might be right. Weir is not pushing the issue, because he has a high character. Think about it this way. How well could Weir have done if he inherited the team that Neal inherited when he became HC??? 30+ win season? Both MWC regular season crown and MWCT title? S16? I think all those would have been possible based on what we have seen in year 1 this year.

    Now look at the starting point Weir started with last spring. The most used term used in this forum was "dumpster fire". So, Weir took a "dumpster fire" situation and turned that into a #3 conf finish and within 7 minutes of an NCAA tourney appearance.

    Weir accomplished way more in year 1 than Neal, yet Neal got the 200k raise and huge buy-out. (obviously, a major mistake, and I was one that did NOT want to give him an extension at the time. I wanted to see what he would do without Alford's players)

    IMO, if you have a "star" employee, you don't wait for another employer to come in snatch him away. You have to be proactive and build goodwill, that hopefully, will be taken into account if a hard decision has to be made down the road. Maybe, we stand a better chance of keeping him long term if we build goodwill now?

    IMO, we should redo his contract and bump his pay up to 800k this year. If next year then goes as expected and we get back to the NCAA's and the Neal money comes off the books, then we should bump him to 1 mm+ range. Attendance clearly needs to return in order to make it happen, so we'll have to see if the fans can vote yes with their pocket books.

    IMO, he's as good or a better coach than Alford and maybe some of those results we saw during the Alford era will return, Top 25 road wins, Conf championships, MWCT titles, and one thing Alford could not do, deep NCAA runs. IMO, all those are possible here with Weir. And Weir also knows, here at UNM, he can get a #3 NCAA seed like Alford and Bliss both did. He doesn't have to go to UCLA to make that happen.

    NCAA seeds for UNM: (only one double digit seed in last 9 appearances, Ritchie's one year)

    1996 - 7
    1997 - 3
    1998 - 4
    1999 - 9
    2005 - 12
    2010 - 3
    2012 - 5
    2013 - 3
    2014 - 7
    Tx: So much has changed since Neal got his $200k bump in 2014.

    New AD - in large part because of Krebs perceived poor management of funds.
    Numerous investigations and every state official now watching every dollar UNM athletics spends.
    Officials now demanding athletics repay UNM $4.5 million in funds obtained to rectify years of deficits.
    Attendance in football and basketball down, down, and down. Likely, football will even be worse this year.
    Lesson learned from bumping Neal after one year. Lost to Stanford, yes. But, still no one wanted him to bolt.
    Cost of attendance stipends beginning in 2015. UNM was to pay $2,700/per. Honestly, I’m not sure if we are.
    Neal buy-out.
    Pressure to defund certain athletic teams.
    Birmingham contract expiring in June/July 2018 - still to be negotiated.
    Nunez is getting it from all sides. Many pressures to balance the budget, controlling all costs.

    So - we all want to take care of Weir, expecting future years of success. Realistically - even if we do - no way, if he has the success we expect - we will come close to matching any P5 offer he will get.
    “A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    A question for each of you. "IF" UNM had made the NCAA tourney this year, what type of pay increase would we have had to pay Weir this year???

    Neal was making 750k when hired, then got a 200k bump when he took Alford's team to the NCAA's and then flopped.

    IMO, it's quite clear after almost 1 full year, that coach Weir has all the values in the program that work here and be highly successful. Maybe, similar to what Alford did, but it sure seems that coach Weir really has a much deeper connection with the players that maybe Alford didn't have, nor any other coach that I can remember.

    With all that said above, IMO, "IF" UNM has the money (125k), they should redo the original contract, where maybe it's a longer term, with a higher buy-out in case Weir was gobbled up by a P5 that showers him with cash. IMO, you have to get ahead of the curve and do it now. Otherwise, if Weir is highly successful next year, which we all expect, and a major program comes calling with a 3 million annual salary, we need to get paid ourselves if we lose our coach, unlike when Alford bolted, we got screwed.

    IMO, we've now experienced 1 full season with coach Weir and I already feel better about where this program is and where it's headed more than ANY year under Neal. Even Neal's 1st year, I thought he choked away a regular season title with a loaded squad and that was a very telling sign. This year, we take a rag tag, thrown together at the last minute group and Weir takes them to a #3 finish, amazing.

    I guess we'll see if the UNM admin and new AD Nunez is a forward thinking group or a wait and get left behind type group.

    Be realistic, Weir would never sign that contract you proposed. He should have a lot more bargaining power after next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick7g View Post
    He makes $675k next year so 800k is not a "HUGE JUMP" but I think we are okay for next year and he should be told that there will be a HUGE JUMP for him in 2 years - should get a million at that point and more if necessary to keep him.
    What will also be good for Weir is the “roll-off” of the $125k payment that he has to make to NMSU. Is that a two or three year payment? Even though Weir makes that payment I assume that was factored into his deal. So year 3 (I think) he effectively gets a $125k raise due to not having to make that payment.

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    Not sure why this continues to be a discussion. With the right coach in place, UNM has all the ingredients to be a major program raking in major money. We have a top/famous college basketball arena, a loyal fanbase that--even though numbers have gone down a bit--is the envy of much of the college basketball world.

    Maybe the administration needs to suspend some non-revenue generating sports for a little while and put the focus on making basketball top-notch (meaning break the cycle of having great coaches poached every couple of years). A consistently-successful basketball program will not only be self-sustaining, but it would boost all other programs, too.

    You've heard the saying, "You gotta spend money to make money." That's the absolute truth when it comes to Lobo basketball. Pay a great coach a great coach's salary and watch this freakin' program take off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregon Lobo View Post
    Maybe the administration needs to suspend some non-revenue generating sports for a little while and put the focus on making basketball top-notch (meaning break the cycle of having great coaches poached every couple of years). A consistently-successful basketball program will not only be self-sustaining, but it would boost all other programs, too.
    You mean, the 600k on the skiing program? Or other programs that just started like beach volleyball, etc? Would have no issues with that. If we are that strapped, put the focus on where it needs to be and as we saw with Alford, if you want a quality coach and want a quality program, the price is much higher than the 625k we are currently paying. Weir will command more in the future and we need to be able to pay up and keep him. Ideally, we should be able to pay our HC, at least 1.2-1.9mm per season if we want to remain relevant and not have our coaches poached.

    Gregg Marshall at Wichita St. started the same time as Alford with similar pay, I think 750k or so, and now makes 3.3mm. He's also now been to 7 straight NCAA's, 3 S16's and a Final Four. You get what you pay for. They've also won 5 straight first round games in the NCAA's. That's 10 NCAA wins since he's been there and there may be more this year? As a comparison, UNM has only 8 NCAA wins in our entire history, not just one coach. He also won an NIT championship early in his tenure there.

    Heck, if we could eventually get Weir to the 1.3mm-1.9mm payscale and he was our Lute Olsen, Mark Few or Gregg Marshall and we had an NCAA team pretty much every year, we simply reload each season vs. rebuild, then it would be money well spent and worth it as it generates NCAA $'s that would help pay for his salary, not to mention fan support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txlobo95 View Post
    You mean, the 600k on the skiing program? Or other programs that just started like beach volleyball, etc? Would have no issues with that. If we are that strapped, put the focus on where it needs to be and as we saw with Alford, if you want a quality coach and want a quality program, the price is much higher than the 625k we are currently paying. Weir will command more in the future and we need to be able to pay up and keep him. Ideally, we should be able to pay our HC, at least 1.2-1.9mm per season if we want to remain relevant and not have our coaches poached.

    Gregg Marshall at Wichita St. started the same time as Alford with similar pay, I think 750k or so, and now makes 3.3mm. He's also now been to 7 straight NCAA's, 3 S16's and a Final Four. You get what you pay for. They've also won 5 straight first round games in the NCAA's. That's 10 NCAA wins since he's been there and there may be more this year? As a comparison, UNM has only 8 NCAA wins in our entire history, not just one coach. He also won an NIT championship early in his tenure there.

    Heck, if we could eventually get Weir to the 1.3mm-1.9mm payscale and he was our Lute Olsen, Mark Few or Gregg Marshall and we had an NCAA team pretty much every year, we simply reload each season vs. rebuild, then it would be money well spent and worth it as it generates NCAA $'s that would help pay for his salary, not to mention fan support.
    Precisely my point. We need to figure out how to keep a good coach. Shuffling every few years is going to eventually kill the program. People get tired of getting excited when we start winning only to watch another school swoop in and steal our momentum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTX View Post
    I think Rice leaves this year. Gonna be a drop off in talent next year.
    Where would Rice go? I don't think he's proven anything beyond the Northwest region. And, I just don't seeing BSU wanting a change either. Boise is a football school and a football town, and I believe they like the competitiveness and respect Rice has brought to the basketball program.

    Rice is a Mark Few disciple. The best thing for him and for BSU is to stay. And if Gonzaga joins the MWC, that will improve their situation even more. Pairing Gonzaga with BSU could be a heck of road series.


    (This is also why I think UTEP or NMSU would be better for us in the MWC as one of the other pairs.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregon Lobo View Post
    Maybe the administration needs to suspend some non-revenue generating sports for a little while and put the focus on making basketball top-notch (meaning break the cycle of having great coaches poached every couple of years). A consistently-successful basketball program will not only be self-sustaining, but it would boost all other programs, too.
    I agree. I'm sure it wouldn't be a popular decision among some people and it is unfortunate, but UNM can't continue to support all of these sports. The athletics department is running a deficit every year, and I don't see that changing drastically. Generating revenue from attendance is more and more difficult since fans just don't attend games in person as much anymore, not just at UNM but everywhere, and I don't see that trend changing. I'm sure basketball attendance will improve next season, but not enough to fix all of UNM athletics budget issues.

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    Did San Jose fire their coach yet?


 

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