A Coach’s Perspective on Effort  

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TheCanisLupis
(@thecanislupis)
Pup

Interesting perspective from GCU Coach, Thunder Dan.  I think Weir is going through the same thing.  For you whiners that complain about starting line-ups, maybe this puts it in perspective. It’s about effort and work.

 

Majerle on how college-aged players are different than his generation: “They’re different in the fact that they’re entitled. They think it should just happen. They don’t understand: Why I’m not playing well, or why am I not starting or why am I not getting it done? Why is this not happening to me? Because you’re not putting in the time.

 

“Don’t come up to my office and say this because you don’t know what I did to get where I went. I’m not impressed that you came here for an hour-and-a-half and practiced and then was the first one out of the gym and went and played Fortnite and woke up in the morning and played Fortnite again and walked in five minutes before practice started, took one shot, practiced … you have to put in the time.”

More tidbits

https://www.google.com/amp/arizonasports.com/story/1837589/dan-majerle-on-gcu-basketball-i-hate-being-average/amp/

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Posted : 02/11/2019 8:27 am MRLobo, Scott, Lobo2x53 and 4 people liked
UNM Class of1972
(@unm-class-of-1972)
Pack Leader

Read my lips, "you can't coach effort". 

Love Noodles

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Posted : 02/11/2019 10:35 am timvracer and loboball30 liked
Big Time Timmy Jim
(@big-time-timmy-jim)
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Posted by: TheCanisLupis

Interesting perspective from GCU Coach, Thunder Dan.  I think Weir is going through the same thing.  For you whiners that complain about starting line-ups, maybe this puts it in perspective. It’s about effort and work.

 

 

Starting the game down 15-4 because your lesser players work harder so that's who you start is a problem as well. Find a way to get your best 5 to work harder. That's part of coaching. I've never seen a coach go with so many different lineup combinations. No wonder the offense is complete garbage. No one unit can get in any flow with one another because every dead ball there is a sub and every week there is a new lineup. It's getting irritating already. I'm tired of this "work harder" and "the right way process" BS. It's a load of crap that he feeds us every press conference. I watched the entire Nevada game and the entire SDSU game. The Nevada game they didn't play hard. They sat in that awful 2-3 and played the ole lay defense while Nevada got any look they wanted. SDSU the last 25 minutes they played hard. Let's not act like Weir's philosophy of how he chooses lineups is getting them to play hard consistently....they're not.

Hail! Hail! Hail!

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Posted : 02/11/2019 10:50 am
Lobo2x53
(@lobo2x53)
Member Admin

So you get players to play harder by NOT rewarding playing hard?

Hmmmm.....  Let me ponder that for a while.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 11:00 am wolfman, JulieG, abqpianist and 1 people liked
Big Time Timmy Jim
(@big-time-timmy-jim)
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Posted by: Lobo2x53

So you get players to play harder by NOT rewarding playing hard?

Hmmmm.....  Let me ponder that for a while.

Never said that. Coach K, Bill Self, Musselman, Calipari, among many other somehow get their best 5 to play hardest. Either that or they don't start the 5 kids who play the hardest. Many times the players who are the least talented work the hardest but it simply doesn't translate to their minutes. If we're going to play kids minutes based on how hard they play, then my 14 year old son will go balls to the wall. Maybe he should start this week.

Hail! Hail! Hail!

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Posted : 02/11/2019 11:21 am hippyboi liked
thepit77
(@thepit77)
Pup

Notre Dame would have played Georgia Tech with 22 Rudy's if playing time was dictated by effort.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 11:33 am JulieG and Big Time Timmy Jim liked
RedSox87122
(@RedSox87122)
Lobo
Posted by: Big Time Timmy Jim
Posted by: Lobo2x53

So you get players to play harder by NOT rewarding playing hard?

Hmmmm.....  Let me ponder that for a while.

Never said that. Coach K, Bill Self, Musselman, Calipari, among many other somehow get their best 5 to play hardest. Either that or they don't start the 5 kids who play the hardest. Many times the players who are the least talented work the hardest but it simply doesn't translate to their minutes. If we're going to play kids minutes based on how hard they play, then my 14 year old son will go balls to the wall. Maybe he should start this week.

Oh please - total PT is not indicative of who starts the game.  The better more experienced players get the most PT.  And, most often those not starting are inserted within a few minutes of tip-off.  Additionally, many were bitching that McGee and Drinnon were not get enough minutes.  Now they do - and, still continued unhappiness.   Frankly - everyone is getting their chance, and most are not taking advantage.

Bragg missed shots, Manigualt missed shots, McGee and Kuiper all missed open shots.  Drinnon TO, Bragg TO, everyone turning the ball over.  Guys have played together long enough to have a feel for one another.  If they cannot make their shots or hang onto the ball - we will start in a hole every game.

It is time to just admit, at this point in time, any unit that takes the floor is simply not at a level needed to compete on the road against most other teams.   Hopefully, going forward and adding a few needed pieces in the future changes this scenario.  

  

“A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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Posted : 02/11/2019 1:02 pm Lobo2x53, Lobeau, primordial and 2 people liked
bmccrack
(@bmccrack)
Lobo
Posted by: RedSox87122
Posted by: Big Time Timmy Jim
Posted by: Lobo2x53

So you get players to play harder by NOT rewarding playing hard?

Hmmmm.....  Let me ponder that for a while.

Never said that. Coach K, Bill Self, Musselman, Calipari, among many other somehow get their best 5 to play hardest. Either that or they don't start the 5 kids who play the hardest. Many times the players who are the least talented work the hardest but it simply doesn't translate to their minutes. If we're going to play kids minutes based on how hard they play, then my 14 year old son will go balls to the wall. Maybe he should start this week.

Oh please - total PT is not indicative of who starts the game.  The better more experienced players get the most PT.  And, most often those not starting are inserted within a few minutes of tip-off.  Additionally, many were bitching that McGee and Drinnon were not get enough minutes.  Now they do - and, still continued unhappiness.   Frankly - everyone is getting their chance, and most are not taking advantage.

Bragg missed shots, Manigualt missed shots, McGee and Kuiper all missed open shots.  Drinnon TO, Bragg TO, everyone turning the ball over.  Guys have played together long enough to have a feel for one another.  If they cannot make their shots or hang onto the ball - we will start in a hole every game.

It is time to just admit, at this point in time, any unit that takes the floor is simply not at a level needed to compete on the road against most other teams.   Hopefully, going forward and adding a few needed pieces in the future changes this scenario.  

  

"Continued Unhappiness"? Lol

That may or may not have something to do with W's and L's. Let me ask you Redsox, are you happy with this team? God, I sure hope not.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 2:22 pm Big Time Timmy Jim liked
RedSox87122
(@RedSox87122)
Lobo

BMC:  Just saying - now that McGee and Drinnon are getting the PT everyone was crying about - people will continue to find something to complain about regarding PT.  My entire point - it’s time to stop complaining about PT, who starts, who doesn’t.   It doesn’t matter, no one has been so reliable that they should be a constant.  

Am I happy?  What part of my post indicated I’m happy?   Was it the part where I stated its time to admit that no matter what unit is playing we are just not at the level needed?  

If that’s not clear enough, let me add - only on a few occasions have I come into a season feeling as excited as I did this year.  When Lyle went down, I was tamed somewhat - but, I honestly thought we were still going to rival Nevada.   So, now having a restated goal of finishing on or above .500 - is extremely disappointing.   

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by RedSox87122

“A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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Posted : 02/11/2019 2:45 pm Lobeau, wolfman, primordial and 1 people liked
RJChez
(@rjchez)
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Posted by: RedSox87122

BMC:  Just saying - now that McGee and Drinnon are getting the PT everyone was crying about - people will continue to find something to complain about regarding PT.  My entire point - it’s time to stop complaining about PT, who starts, who doesn’t.   It doesn’t matter, no one has been so reliable that they should be a constant.  

Am I happy?  What part of my post indicated I’m happy?   Was it the part where I stated its time to admit that no matter what unit is playing we are just not at the level needed?  

I totally agree.  These guys have all played and practiced together enough to be able to play effectively with any lineup.  I've never witnessed a Lobo team have so many unforced, bonehead turnovers.  Our offense is very stagnant and not creating anything, or in position for rebounding.  They have all the skills, just can't all play in sync.  I still have faith in this group, they just have to have faith in each other and use their heads and hearts while out there.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 3:02 pm wolfman, Scott, JulieG and 1 people liked
Farside-Lobo
(@farside-lobo)
Pup
Posted by: Big Time Timmy Jim
Posted by: Lobo2x53

So you get players to play harder by NOT rewarding playing hard?

Hmmmm.....  Let me ponder that for a while.

Never said that. Coach K, Bill Self, Musselman, Calipari, among many other somehow get their best 5 to play hardest. Either that or they don't start the 5 kids who play the hardest. Many times the players who are the least talented work the hardest but it simply doesn't translate to their minutes. If we're going to play kids minutes based on how hard they play, then my 14 year old son will go balls to the wall. Maybe he should start this week.

The players that Coach K and Self get are the cream of the crop.  Probably because the have the best talent AND work the hardest.  If either of those things are lacking, they recruit over their heads and that kid moves on.  And maybe it takes being let go by a top tier program for a guy to figure it out.  I don't know Caroline's story or that of the twins, but perhaps they 'got it' after transferring.  Perhaps that is way CB is here now at not at Kansas or ASU.  He's been starting lately, so looks like he's putting in the effort. 

 

As the old saying goes, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard--or something like that.  I think most coaches start guys based on who gives them the best chance to win.  Usually that is the more talented player even if that player is not putting out as much effort as someone less talented.  That'll win you games an you'll beat less talented teams.  However, if you want to have a great team, you have to get the guys who are the most talented to work the hardest as well.  That comes from within and from your team culture.  I think that is what Weir is trying to build.   Build that culture so that the best players are also the hardest working.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 3:29 pm Lobo2x53, wolfman, Scott and 4 people liked
TheCanisLupis
(@thecanislupis)
Pup
Posted by: Big Time Timmy Jim
 
Find a way to get your best 5 to work harder. That's part of coaching. 

Pretty sure coach has tried different things this year to get players to respond. They haven’t. I’m addition, (Grammar alluded to it in a tweet), there are a lot of outside influencers telling these kids that they are better than they are , should be getting more PT, etc. and that only exacerbates the issue. 

 

Weir has a pretty simple formula for PT and starting. Get the most deflections, move the ball from side to side on offense. Shouldn’t be too hard to figure out. 

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Posted : 02/11/2019 3:45 pm
wolf1960
(@wolf1960)
Member Donors

Which players can score during the 1st 3 mins of the 1st quarter Coach ? We cannot continue to get 12 points down in 2 mins because we take lousy shots and miss bunnies.. Most points win the game..  GO  LOBOS score points, fight for rebounds and defend from the tip off. !! which players can do that ? Starters.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 5:24 pm
Big Time Timmy Jim
(@big-time-timmy-jim)
Pup
Posted by: TheCanisLupis
Posted by: Big Time Timmy Jim
 
Find a way to get your best 5 to work harder. That's part of coaching. 

Pretty sure coach has tried different things this year to get players to respond. They haven’t. I’m addition, (Grammar alluded to it in a tweet), there are a lot of outside influencers telling these kids that they are better than they are , should be getting more PT, etc. and that only exacerbates the issue. 

 

Weir has a pretty simple formula for PT and starting. Get the most deflections, move the ball from side to side on offense. Shouldn’t be too hard to figure out. 

Well whatever he is doing isn't working. Consider a change to someone who will make it work. We've seen these guys play really well before but just not enough. We know it's there. Some how the right buttons aren't being pushed. I don't want to hear him tell the media or tell Grammar that he's tried everything. It's not working and have no faith that next year will be better. Simply because they are poorly coached on both ends of the floor. They couldn't even get the ball in bounds sometimes. 

Hail! Hail! Hail!

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Posted : 02/11/2019 6:59 pm
Lobo2x53
(@lobo2x53)
Member Admin

Timmy, you have no sense of reality.  Especially financial reality.

Wish I knew what your real agenda was.  It is more than you admit to.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 8:00 pm JulieG and abqpianist liked
Scott
(@Scott)
Pack Leader

Farside makes a good point. Cream of the crop. Two guys with equal talent, one has character and work ethic, another not as much. The first goes to Duke, the other goes to a prominent P5, and half the time bounces around in the transfer machine.

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Posted : 02/11/2019 9:31 pm
JulieG
(@julieg)
Contributer Donors

Recruits mature at different rates. Most recruited at P5 schools have quite a bit of talent no matter how mature. Coaches look for the ones who have a good start on what they want maturity wise and are able to recruit the ones they think have the attributes they want. As you go downhill from the blue bloods it generally gets harder to get the complete package and even the blue bloods mess up every once in a while. When you get down to the Mountain West coaches often take transfers and hope they have what they want or go with freshmen who they believe they can develop.

We were able to get Carleton, for example, because it appears that at the time he was coming from high school he had talent, but apparently was immature. From what I can see his maturity has caught up with where it ought to be.

What you hope that the recruiter(s) for your school can find the best balance they can at our level as do the coaches.

JulieG
Loyal Lobo fan since 1962

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Posted : 02/11/2019 10:35 pm RedSox87122, abqpianist, Doublealum and 3 people liked
Big Time Timmy Jim
(@big-time-timmy-jim)
Pup
Posted by: Lobo2x53

Timmy, you have no sense of reality.  Especially financial reality.

Wish I knew what your real agenda was.  It is more than you admit to.

I am realistic about the financial situation UNM is in. I also know it won't get better if Men's basketball continues down the current path they are on. The Arena will not be completely full the rest of the season, and it will be hard to improve season ticket sales going into next season after the way this current season has gone. This team isn't getting better at the moment either. I know you all love your Lobos and want to see the positives and the good side of things. I love the Lobos too, but I just don't have as positive an outlook as some based on what we see from game to game.

I have also stated what my agenda was before. It's not some hidden secret. Lobo basketball needs a change at the top. I think Paul Weir is a great guy, I genuinely believe that. I would love for him to go on a run and win the MWC tourney and get the Lobos back to the NCAA tournament regularly. I just watch this team play and it is hard as a die hard Lobo fan for 40+ years to watch.

Lobo2X, I think you have no sense of reality about where the current state of this program is at......

Hail! Hail! Hail!

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Posted : 02/12/2019 8:48 am
pitforever90
(@pitforever90)
Lobo

I posted about #1 Tennessee in another thread. If you look at the top 6 players on their team, they all have 3-4 years of experience playing in the motion offense that Rick Barnes uses. Compare that to last year's team and this year's team in terms of experience within Weir's motion offense. People are far too impatient. Barnes didn't have a winning season in either of his first two years.

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Posted : 02/12/2019 9:26 am RedSox87122, abqpianist, Lobo2x53 and 1 people liked
Lobo2x53
(@lobo2x53)
Member Admin
Posted by: Big Time Timmy Jim
Posted by: Lobo2x53

Timmy, you have no sense of reality.  Especially financial reality.

Wish I knew what your real agenda was.  It is more than you admit to.

I am realistic about the financial situation UNM is in. I also know it won't get better if Men's basketball continues down the current path they are on. The Arena will not be completely full the rest of the season, and it will be hard to improve season ticket sales going into next season after the way this current season has gone. This team isn't getting better at the moment either. I know you all love your Lobos and want to see the positives and the good side of things. I love the Lobos too, but I just don't have as positive an outlook as some based on what we see from game to game.

I have also stated what my agenda was before. It's not some hidden secret. Lobo basketball needs a change at the top. I think Paul Weir is a great guy, I genuinely believe that. I would love for him to go on a run and win the MWC tourney and get the Lobos back to the NCAA tournament regularly. I just watch this team play and it is hard as a die hard Lobo fan for 40+ years to watch.

Lobo2X, I think you have no sense of reality about where the current state of this program is at......

Where do you believe the money is sitting there to buy out yet another coaching contract?  Where to you steal the money from?

What evidence do you have that a vastly better coach is available on the market for a lesser price?

UNM hired a coach that fit their budget, and a coach with minimal experience.  The two may well be linked--I was not part of the discussions.  You hire anyone inexperienced, you tend to get growing pains.  Just like you do with a freshman recruit.  You hope the person will grow into being a good choice, but the likelihood of finding a good, experienced, young, fully developed coach is similar to the likelihood of finding a freshman all American at UNM.  But when you have a UNM fan base that has no sense of "patience" and demands turn-around miracles, you are taking risks.

The best option:  have a plan, including a time line, work the plan, then evaluate.  The plan is players recruited, assistant coaches, and development of the head coach.  One would hope Weir, Nunez, etc., have such a plan.  I do not know that they do or do not.  But UNM has few options that fall in the "reality" bucket.  Writing more checks for more lottery tickets is not one of them.  As I have pointed out a number of times on here, if Weir would absorb some experience from down the hall that would help.  But there are other ways to get an infusion of experience into the staff as well, that likely cost a lot less than another pay-out.  Weir has strengths, UNM has to fill in the complementary skills, either in growth of the current staff, or selective addition of the right skills.If you are a school with deep pocket you fire after a year, pay on three or four coaches contracts at once, and pay above the going rate to get the hot flavor of the month.

If you are a mid major with near the smallest budget in the conference, you stay patient longer, because you have few options financially. The currency printing press in the basement is broken. So again, where is this money coming from?  Without that, you have no fiscally feasible plan.

This post was modified 1 week ago by Lobo2x53
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Posted : 02/12/2019 9:48 am abqpianist liked
Lobo2x53
(@lobo2x53)
Member Admin
Posted by: pitforever90

I posted about #1 Tennessee in another thread. If you look at the top 6 players on their team, they all have 3-4 years of experience playing in the motion offense that Rick Barnes uses. Compare that to last year's team and this year's team in terms of experience within Weir's motion offense. People are far too impatient. Barnes didn't have a winning season in either of his first two years.

Not only are Lobo fans too impatient, that impatience makes things worse--it pressures a staff to bring in too many high risk players for one or two seasons, and to "win now" at the expense of longer term sustained success.  Not every team will hit like NV did with its current roster--that is the anomaly. Most non-bluebloods who have good seasons have done it as TN did, with growing a team for several years, and managing the addition of a key transfer or two.  Establishing a constant influx of FR who can develop into the replacements for the SRs in time.

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Posted : 02/12/2019 10:04 am abqpianist and Scott liked
Scott
(@Scott)
Pack Leader

Great point 2x53. If coach had gone with mostly freshman recruits last year and this, folks expectations would be vastly different that what we had this year with transfers and JC guys. And there might be a little less pressure on him now.

Go Lobos.

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Posted : 02/12/2019 10:14 am
Big Time Timmy Jim
(@big-time-timmy-jim)
Pup
Posted by: Lobo2x53
Posted by: Big Time Timmy Jim
Posted by: Lobo2x53

Timmy, you have no sense of reality.  Especially financial reality.

Wish I knew what your real agenda was.  It is more than you admit to.

I am realistic about the financial situation UNM is in. I also know it won't get better if Men's basketball continues down the current path they are on. The Arena will not be completely full the rest of the season, and it will be hard to improve season ticket sales going into next season after the way this current season has gone. This team isn't getting better at the moment either. I know you all love your Lobos and want to see the positives and the good side of things. I love the Lobos too, but I just don't have as positive an outlook as some based on what we see from game to game.

I have also stated what my agenda was before. It's not some hidden secret. Lobo basketball needs a change at the top. I think Paul Weir is a great guy, I genuinely believe that. I would love for him to go on a run and win the MWC tourney and get the Lobos back to the NCAA tournament regularly. I just watch this team play and it is hard as a die hard Lobo fan for 40+ years to watch.

Lobo2X, I think you have no sense of reality about where the current state of this program is at......

Where do you believe the money is sitting there to buy out yet another coaching contract?  Where to you steal the money from?

What evidence do you have that a vastly better coach is available on the market for a lesser price?

UNM hired a coach that fit their budget, and a coach with minimal experience.  The two may well be linked--I was not part of the discussions.  You hire anyone inexperienced, you tend to get growing pains.  Just like you do with a freshman recruit.  You hope the person will grow into being a good choice, but the likelihood of finding a good, experienced, young, fully developed coach is similar to the likelihood of finding a freshman all American at UNM.  But when you have a UNM fan base that has no sense of "patience" and demands turn-around miracles, you are taking risks.

The best option:  have a plan, including a time line, work the plan, then evaluate.  The plan is players recruited, assistant coaches, and development of the head coach.  One would hope Weir, Nunez, etc., have such a plan.  I do not know that they do or do not.  But UNM has few options that fall in the "reality" bucket.  Writing more checks for more lottery tickets is not one of them.  As I have pointed out a number of times on here, if Weir would absorb some experience from down the hall that would help.  But there are other ways to get an infusion of experience into the staff as well, that likely cost a lot less than another pay-out.  Weir has strengths, UNM has to fill in the complementary skills, either in growth of the current staff, or selective addition of the right skills.If you are a school with deep pocket you fire after a year, pay on three or four coaches contracts at once, and pay above the going rate to get the hot flavor of the month.

If you are a mid major with near the smallest budget in the conference, you stay patient longer, because you have few options financially. The currency printing press in the basement is broken. So again, where is this money coming from?  Without that, you have no fiscally feasible plan.

I agree with a lot of what you just said. As I have stated in various posts and forums previously, I do not know that it is financially feasible to move on from Weir for another coach? I didn't think it was financially possible at the time when they moved on from Craig Neal either. There are people/donors/boosters within the confines of the department financially that may be able to make it happen, or they may not. If possible, I am all for making it happen, even if ticket prices have to go up. That is me personally and I know many others out there would be against it.

The evidence that I have is watching them jack a quick/contested 3 over and over again and hear him tell us how the analytics favor that style, yet we keep doing it and getting blown out by 20-30. The evidence I have is that we leave a guy wide open under the basket in transition. The evidence I have is that this is a team with the talent level to blow Nevada and SDSU out at home, yet lose to Penn and North Texas at home.

I would agree with the notion that he needs more time and we need to be patient with him, but the process and product on the court right now are alarming. This team can't guard. I don't want to hear that it's year two or transfer's or whatever. Plain and simple they are POORLY POORLY POORLY coached defensively. Offensively they are bad as well. I am advocating for them to come up with creative ways to make a change because I truly truly believe that at this time next year, Lobo basketball will be in the same exact position. Move on IF at all possible. It may not be financially possible and I get that, but IF it is, move on. He's doing a horrible job coaching this team.

This post was modified 1 week ago by Big Time Timmy Jim

Hail! Hail! Hail!

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Posted : 02/12/2019 11:49 am
NMFANINOKC
(@nmfaninokc)
Member Donors

Stubbornness.. I follow KU and have seen them go from a more power inside game from the beginning of the year, dealing with injuries, players ineligible, Vick left the program for personal reason, and so on,,,, now they have evolved into a different type of defensive team and completely changed their offensive approach based on personnel. Yea, I know they have 5 star guys her and there but the bottom line is the approach, the X's and O's and their complete style has changed to not only be more successful as a group but to also get the most out of every individual. Mike said it best on here weeks ago, square peg into a round hole..  

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Posted : 02/12/2019 12:24 pm Big Time Timmy Jim liked