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brooklyn_esq
(@brooklyn_esq)
Member Admin

Interesting story in the paper of record this morning. Names we all know and love. Wonder if Mr. McCall might be referring to a certain call on the SDSU campus a few years back.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/20/sports/ncaa-tournament-referees.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

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Posted : 03/20/2019 6:32 am
EPluribusUNM, JulieG, MRLobo and 2 people liked
pitforever90
(@pitforever90)
Lobo

Let's just say I'm very skeptical of the study that claims 94% correct on calls made and 90% correct on calls not made. For example, how do they determine what a "call not made" consists of? Is that limited to controversial situations? Do they review games and check how often 3 second calls in the lane aren't made?

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Posted : 03/20/2019 7:05 am
JulieG, abqpianist, AbqLobo and 2 people liked
growler
(@growler)
Lobo
Posted by: pitforever90

Let's just say I'm very skeptical of the study that claims 94% correct on calls made and 90% correct on calls not made. For example, how do they determine what a "call not made" consists of? Is that limited to controversial situations? Do they review games and check how often 3 second calls in the lane aren't made?

Not to mention moving screens, traveling, all the pushing that happens in the post, etc. How closely fouls are called varies from one game to the next, how does one evaluate whether fouls/no-fouls were correctly decided, much less the subjectivity in evaluating within an individual game? Not too impressed with the study for instilling confidence. The real question is not how flawed the reffing is (we know it is), but rather (1) how it can be improved, and (2) how often the mistakes consistently favor one team over another to the extent that it could change the outcome. People will make mistakes, but maybe more rigorous training for refs is needed and evaluation for consistency and impartiality should be a greater part of the equation. 

 

Growler

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Posted : 03/20/2019 8:23 am
pitforever90
(@pitforever90)
Lobo

"(1) how it can be improved"

At the very least, you need some sort of reasonably consistent approach to what calls are made during conference play. IMO, the MW has too much variation between games that are allowed to be physical and games that have quick whistles. There isn't really a defining style of play as a result. It's all over the road.

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Posted : 03/20/2019 8:44 am
RedSox87122
(@RedSox87122)
Lobo

The 94.75% and 90% stats cited seem about right, provided all Eric Curry officiated game were excluded from the sample. Inclusion would mean the NCAA would have a “lot of explaining to do”!!

“A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.” - Herm Albright

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Posted : 03/20/2019 9:11 am
timvracer
(@timvracer)
Pack Leader

LOL..Eric Curry, I have to tell you, he is a fun ref to have officiate here at SJSU... from my floor seats, I chat with him often.  He will give us "running commentary" during the game.  Yeah, he has a HUGE Ego, and definitely makes ego/grudge calls (I am certain he had it out for Bragg), but I enjoy his engagement in the games.  We started our banter 3 years ago when he runs by and tells me "You wouldn't know a travel if it bit you in the ass" (of course I was complaining about a travel call).  Lol... loved it, ever since then I really enjoy when he comes to town.  

He also will chat a bit about some of the big games he would have recently officiated.  I am guessing he picks some SJSU games for a break, or perhaps he has some contacts in town.  

-- timvracer --
"As of Saturday night, it would appear the Mountain West Conference has two NCAA tournament-worthy teams. As long as they can find the remains of one of them."

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Posted : 03/20/2019 9:25 am
MRLobo and ricoLobo liked
jbarr
(@jbarr)
Lobo
Posted by: brooklyn_esq

Interesting story in the paper of record this morning. Names we all know and love. Wonder if Mr. McCall might be referring to a certain call on the SDSU campus a few years back.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/20/sports/ncaa-tournament-referees.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

Interesting.

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Posted : 03/20/2019 10:56 am
growler
(@growler)
Lobo
Posted by: timvracer

Yeah, he has a HUGE Ego, and definitely makes ego/grudge calls (I am certain he had it out for Bragg),

And that is precisely why this guy should be bounced out of the referee business, IMO. 

Growler

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Posted : 03/20/2019 12:29 pm
ricoLobo
(@ricolobo)
Lobo
Posted by: growler
Posted by: timvracer

Yeah, he has a HUGE Ego, and definitely makes ego/grudge calls (I am certain he had it out for Bragg),

And that is precisely why this guy should be bounced out of the referee business, IMO. 

Seriously? Name a college ref who DOESN'T have a big ego. 

They're all on power trips. 

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Posted : 03/20/2019 2:10 pm
Hoser
(@hoser)
Pack Leader
Posted by: pitforever90

Let's just say I'm very skeptical of the study that claims 94% correct on calls made and 90% correct on calls not made. For example, how do they determine what a "call not made" consists of? Is that limited to controversial situations? Do they review games and check how often 3 second calls in the lane aren't made?

High schools are already having a tough time filling required slots for referees.  Soon College games might be having a tough time filling those slots as well.  Refs take an enormous amount of abuse.  Do they make bad calls, of course, but all the grief they take is IMO ridiculous.  If you haven't walked a mile in their shoes, then you should not be casting stones.  

I have shouted my share of boos during a game because of a questionable call, but at the same time, I have never crossed a line with vulgar behavior.  I sometimes cringe at what fans are willing to do because of a bad call.  Let's face it, bad calls will always be there because of the human factor.

“It’s a basic truth of the human condition that everybody lies. The only variable is about what.”

“There’s no ‘I’ in team. There’s a ‘me’ though, if you jumble it up".

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Posted : 03/20/2019 2:58 pm
LaVidaLobo
(@LaVidaLobo)
Lobo

Though stats about the correct calls are dubious. Also, all it takes is ONE bad call to change an entire game. The game could be correctly called 99.9 percent of the time, but if the official makes one blatant terrible call, it changes everything.

I was watching the ASU game last night and Bobby Hurley was Teed up. One of his players had just be given a foul and he said "What did he do?" 3 times I think. It wasn't a nasty exchange or anything. I'm not a Bobby Hurley fan myself, but I did think that the T was unnecessary and excessive at that point. It was similar to Paul Weir's. These refs need to keep their egos in check. They are not bigger than the game of basketball and the fans go to watch the players, not them. 

I couldn't care less if  Eric Curry rescues cats from trees, holds the doors open for senior citizens, and pays off eweryone's  lay-a-way accounts. He SUCKS as a ref and he should choose another career if he has an ego driven agenda when officiating. 

The articles says Weir reacted a "questionable call". It wasn't questionable, It was terrible.

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Posted : 03/21/2019 9:22 am
ricoLobo
(@ricolobo)
Lobo
Posted by: LaVidaLobo

Though stats about the correct calls are dubious. Also, all it takes is ONE bad call to change an entire game. The game could be correctly called 99.9 percent of the time, but if the official makes one blatant terrible call, it changes everything.

I was watching the ASU game last night and Bobby Hurley was Teed up. One of his players had just be given a foul and he said "What did he do?" 3 times I think. It wasn't a nasty exchange or anything. I'm not a Bobby Hurley fan myself, but I did think that the T was unnecessary and excessive at that point. It was similar to Paul Weir's. These refs need to keep their egos in check. They are not bigger than the game of basketball and the fans go to watch the players, not them. 

I couldn't care less if  Eric Curry rescues cats from trees, holds the doors open for senior citizens, and pays off eweryone's  lay-a-way accounts. He SUCKS as a ref and he should choose another career if he has an ego driven agenda when officiating. 

The articles says Weir reacted a "questionable call". It wasn't questionable, It was terrible.

The article also didn't mention that the clock was stopped for a TV timeout. Weir made it clear that he thought it was OK for him to leave the coaches box. But watching the ASU/SJU game last night, I heard Seth Davis say that officials have been told to T up coaches and benches for demonstrative behhavior, including putting your arms up in disbelief like Hurley did. 

I do think that crew last night though, took it beyond the intent. It WAS ridiculous, especially for a wildman like Bobby Hurley. He's really funny to watch in person. My brother and I got a kick out of his antics when ASU played TCU after the UNM/St. Mary's debacle back in December. When he was voicing his displeasure to the zebras he would actually fold his hands behind his back to avoid getting t'd up.

 

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Posted : 03/21/2019 10:21 am